re: Looks like Disney might be coming to grips with what they have done to the SW franchise

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That would be very poor story telling, but they have no other choice. They have to pull a random villain out if their arse at this point.

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no doubt

I'd be very curious what the "idea" for this trilogy was but it seems like it wasn't thought out well from the get go.

Its almost like the opposite of the prequel trilogy which had an incredible concept (should have followed through with Darth Jar Jar) - horrible production and delivery.

I did and then responded - i can only assume there is something in my response that you are misconstruing - but its hard to tell with that response.

no need to get testy

This is a really interesting point int all this, its hard to say for sure what exactly happened - was he hired first and then they presented the "idea" and he said no i'm doing my own movie after that, or was it all fleshed out on the front end. If he went in and from the get go said i'm doing this movie this way, etc. before hired - really can't blame him IMO.

He certainly missed his audience on a lot of it and made a ton of the other mistakes like pointless characters / scenes ( i feel like i have to say that every time so, sorry, but some people can get perturbed if you look like you are supporting TFA in any way). But i think that some people are also taking the opportunity to pile on and not give some credit where it is due.


I think some of the stuff RJ did with Rey and Kylo was actually some of the more compelling and interesting stuff the franchise has seen since the OT. I felt the movie had redeeming qualities mainly, but am well aware i am in the extreme minority on that though.

We can simplify it down to this:

Whether you liked TFA, disliked TFA or loved TFA, you at least still had an interest in the next SW as strong if not stronger than you did before TFA. After TLJ, it's the exact opposite. I don't know anyone who loved it and even those who found it entertaining aren't very interested in the next one at this point.

Marketing, good faith, and positive production news could change that boosted by early positive audience reviews for IX, but it's difficult seeing all of that come together. Like Scruffy and others have said, there's almost nothing left to work with.

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Its amazing to me how this seems to be a trend in Hollywood with the bigger franchises.

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Makes the MCU seem better than it is. Don't get me wrong; it's great. But when DC and SW are all that you can compare it to (maybe HP?), every movie feels perfect.

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Well, there hasn't been much good since the OT so I can't point to a prequel and talk up how well they handled other characters - but I really was not able to enjoy either Rey or Kylo because there's no dramatic tension left when Rey has no chance of failing.

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Well it just depends on how you look at it - she was trying to "turn" kylo and certainly failed in that to a large degree and also got tricked into traveling to snoke / kylo. I've really enjoyed their roles immensely.

What you say is true in that she has gotten it easy, but the last film could actually go a long way in defining the morality theme of the sequel trilogy.

They could have done the trilogy with the same morality - keep first movie, second movie have luke train rey and get exposed to snoke, third movie defeat snoke.

That would have been fine i suppose, i'm sure a lot of people who are complaining now would have loved it, but i just wouldn't be excited about a trilogy that is essentially a rehash. Would have watched it and enjoyed it but that kind of thing just isn't compelling to me.

I think Abrahms had in mind a virtual reboot with Snoke as the Emperor and Luke as Yoda. But RJ didn't like that so he destroyed it - while leaving nothing overly useful behind for either the audience or the next director.

Okay, that's funny right there.

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MellT_13

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You need therapy.

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He shows outright contempt for the core of the universe. Borders on hatred, imho

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It is very hard not to think he hates either the "fan-boys" who loved the original characters or the original characters themselves.

This is risky stuff because it puts us in the position of projecting his intentions from his choices. But he avoids all of the key moments that would have better humanized Luke and made his transition from the jedi we finally got to see in ROTJ to the person who seems to be a weak coward we saw hiding at the start of TLJ.

RJ avoids obvious moments of Luke's emotion that are very hard to justify. We don't get to see his full emotional reactions when the loss of his best friend (and his nephew's father) is relayed to Luke. We don't get to understand how a young and fearless man who confronted the emperor and vader alone became the kind of person who would give up on his twin sister's son and try to murder him in his sleep.

You could decide to tell a story about Luke turning to the dark side - Lucas played with that when Luke wore black in ROTJ. There would be interesting echos of his father in that type of outcome. I suppose if RJ were dead set on undermining pre-existing stories then he could have expanded on the abuse of power by jedi and shown how moral relativism might have led Luke astray step by step in the intervening decades.

But the audience needs the exposition. You can't make a white becomes black plot twist without showing the emergence of grays. And if Luke were now to be a hero or villain worth caring about you have to care enough to show his humanity through emotion.