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Let's overanalyze Snowpiercer....what the hell did I watch??

Posted on 12/28/15 at 10:36 am
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
150681 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 10:36 am
So I had added Snowpiercer to my list on Netflix a while back, and finally decided to watch it last week. Man, oh man…that was….interesting. It was one of the dumbest, most ridiculous, random, hilarious, stupid movies I’ve ever seen. But for some damn reason, I actually kinda liked it.

Once I got over the fact that I would continually be slapped in the face with social class commentary, I sat back and got into the movie. But what the hell is going on here? For starters, we see messages being delivered inside of protein bars to the tail of the train. And they don’t really make much sense, but the movie seems to think they do, so whatever. I’ll roll with it.

Then the revolt starts, and it’s kinda cool. I liked the calling out of no bullets…that was pretty cool. And the movie was WAY more violent than I thought it would be. That was unexpected, and I enjoyed that. And when they got to the protein bar factory, that was so gratuitous and unnecessary, but pretty funny at least. They’ve been eating bugs and shite this WHOLE TIME, you guys!! LOLZOMG!!!

Let’s talk about the cars. Oh man, the cars. Okay, so obviously we didn’t see ALL of the cars. I get that. But the ones we did see didn’t make much sense at all. I read something online that I think this was based on a book, and that there were 1,000 cars in that book, or something like that?? But the train in the movie clearly wasn’t that long. In fact, it didn’t seem to be much longer than what was actually shown onscreen. But it has to be, right?

I mean, where the frick do these rich people sleep? We see no chambers in these cars. We see bunks in the tail section, and then a small spot for (I assume) guards and shite to sleep a few cars up from there. But after that, it’s completely random. We see a fricking aquarium car…don’t even get me started on how much the water would have something to say with a train moving that fast. And that’s even before the classroom. So if people want to hit up the sushi bar, do they have to walk through the classroom (and hope they don’t get shot by the teacher, good Lord..). Or are there levels to the train, and you can go over/under it? Who knows, because it’s never explained. But you’d think on their way to the front that they could’ve just skipped the classroom and the children, so maybe there isn’t a way around. There’s a car with dentist/library/tailor in it. That seems completely necessary. But then we get to the fricking pool car, which is hilarious in its own right. I feel like they just sat down and thought of cars that would look cool, and just threw them in there. There are several restaurant/bar cars, along with some club/party cars, and some of those are weirdly close to the engine. And a sauna car? Man, talk about life’s necessities.

And don’t get me started on the shootout scene and how ridiculous that shite was. Pretty impressive shooting considering they were shooting at each other and reusing bullet holes in the glass while about ten traincars apart on a bumpy, fast train in a curve. I bet these dudes were Olympian shooters before the world turned cold.

Oh, and Ed Harris just chills in his engine room all day with basically a table and a chubby girl to hang out with all the time? What’s the fun in that? I sure hope that room has more to offer than a dinner table and a chubby chick, because that would drive any man insane (which may explain the movie in the first place..).

And Gilliam is in on it? Of course he is. Why? Because we have to thin the herd to balance the train. And that makes sense why? Who knows…but the movie seems to think it does, so whatever. I’ll roll with it.

Let’s get to the Asian dude. So his plan is to use drugs (basically C4) to blow up the train and escape. And then what? He tells us that he sees more and more of the airplane each year, so that must mean the world is thawing. Okay, so let’s ignore the sheer stupidity of that premise (because it could just unseasonably warm the last couple of years) and assume he’s right. Just because the world is thawing A LITTLE doesn’t mean that it’s still a livable environment. And let’s not forget that people trained in that environment tried to escape before and literally froze to death within 50 steps of the train tracks. I mean, I’m no rocket surgeon, but it seems like “living on a train that literally won’t ever die and contains a FULLY SUSTAINABLE ECOSYSTEM until the world temperature grows to something that doesn’t literally kill human beings in minutes” seems like a fairly smart plan to me. And literally blowing up the train seems like something that could, you know, kill everything on board. But hey, I’m not the crack addict, so maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about.

So a bunch of shite happens and they decide that the only real answer is to blow the train and GTFO. Okay, solid plan. So let’s do that next to a city or something, right? Nah…let’s blow that shite next to a mountain. So now the train has a giant hole in it, and an avalanche brings the thunder and blows the train to shite, killing everybody on board except for two of the weakest members of the only human population left on earth. And they have to fend for themselves in the fricking freezing wilderness. But it’s okay, you guys, because POLAR BEAR!!! See? Check it out…life. Everything is okay now. Nevermind that a) it’s a fricking polar bear and those things are, you know, made to live in freezing environments, or b) it’s a fricking polar bear and those things are, you know, kind of assholes and pretty brutal killing machines, and these two kids are likely the first living things (a.k.a. food) that it has seen in almost two decades, so it will likely hunt and eat them immediately. But whatever.

I feel like this conversation went down at some point during production:

So, I dig the premise, and like all of the stupid shite that makes no sense, but how do we end it.
Well, sir, we were thinking we’d just blow the train to shite and have the two survivors (a girl and a small child) face the snow on their own.
Okay, sounds good. But wouldn’t they die immediately?
No, sir. You see, there’s a polar bear about 100 feet away from them. So life!!
Brilliant. Someone get Chris Evans on the phone…



And yet despite all of that, I actually kinda dug it. And don’t get me wrong, the movie is fricking terrible. But for whatever weird reasons, it entertained me for two hours far more than I thought it would.

Thoughts on this movie?
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
150681 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 10:40 am to
According to this link, the director himself has said that the train in the movie is only 60 cars long. And there is a diagram (the pic is too big to post here).

Here is another link that says the same thing about the director and the train being 60 cars long.

Interesting.
Posted by Fewer Kilometers
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2007
36039 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 10:41 am to
Not reading all of that.

I hated it.

My wife has seen it two or three times.

To each his own.
Posted by athenslife101
Member since Feb 2013
18555 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 10:41 am to
Didn't read. You watched a shitty movie. im going to duck behind some cover because of the downvotes coming because people on this site blows that movie like a hungry fat girl
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422393 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 10:41 am to
(real world) spoiler alert: bugs are the future of protein irl. deal with it

quote:

Let’s get to the Asian dude. So his plan is to use drugs (basically C4) to blow up the train and escape. And then what? He tells us that he sees more and more of the airplane each year, so that must mean the world is thawing. Okay, so let’s ignore the sheer stupidity of that premise (because it could just unseasonably warm the last couple of years) and assume he’s right. Just because the world is thawing A LITTLE doesn’t mean that it’s still a livable environment.

also when they leave there is a huge polar bear about to eat teh shite out of them

like i said a while back. these sci fi movies are so reliant on this "hook" that they sometimes can't see the forest for the trees. often it takes a MASSIVE suspension of disbelief to truly get into the movie, and i wasn't ready to give it for this movie
Posted by Josh Fenderman
Ron Don Volante's PlayPen
Member since Jul 2011
6705 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 10:46 am to
*waits patiently for Baloo's response*
Posted by CP3
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2009
7403 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 10:46 am to
Yeah this movie was pretty terrible.
Posted by boxcarbarney
Above all things, be a man
Member since Jul 2007
22729 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 10:49 am to
quote:

(real world) spoiler alert: bugs are the future of protein irl. deal with it


Best and most sustainable source of protein there is. But its still nasty.
Posted by Salmon
On the trails
Member since Feb 2008
83556 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 10:52 am to
uh oh...you mentioned the polar bear

is it Baloo or Freuxzen that thinks people that get hung up on the polar bear are idiots?
This post was edited on 12/28/15 at 10:53 am
Posted by HeadChange
Abort gay babies
Member since May 2009
43834 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 10:58 am to
I don't know why this movie is so liked. Like Mad Maxx, I thought it was entertaining but nothing special
Posted by Salmon
On the trails
Member since Feb 2008
83556 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:01 am to
I enjoyed it sans the absurdity of the ending.

I went into it knowing absolutely nothing and was kinda shocked how brutal it all was and found it to be kind of fun.

Then it ended and I was left thinking "well that was kinda retarded"
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422393 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:03 am to
quote:

*waits patiently for Baloo's response*

i almost alerted him to this thread in the IP/streaming thread b/c i know he loves it
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:08 am to
I'll just quote myself, instead of re-typing it, so there's a few things that won't quite fit this thread:


quote:

I think the movie is f'n brilliant. People criticizing realism regarding the polar bear are, frankly, morons. It's a movie in which the major plot device is a PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE. How about we grant that the movie is not grounded in reality, and is instead a formalistic dark fairy tale? The movie never attempts to make its setting "realistic". It's a damn allegory.

The visuals are amazing. It has one of the single best fight sequences in any film, the fight in the tunnel (which also starts with a guy cutting open a carp with a hatchet... again, grounded realism is not a real high priority). So the movie works as just a straight action film.

But that's not what makes it great. What makes it great is that it's political critique is fairly all-encompassing. You have people in this thread bitching about it communist message, as it tells the story of the oppressed lower class rising up to destroy its bourgeois oppressors. And a lot of people latched on to that. Yay, the 1% is getting slaughtered!

But here's the thing, that completely misreads the film. The important part of the climax, and THAR BE SPOLIERS AHEAD, is that the communist revolution is part and parcel of the capitalist system on the train. And it's not really a capitalist system, because as Ed Harris tells us, it is a static system that cannot change. That's an anathema to capitalism, which thrives on change and innovation. This system is designed to crush innovation of any sort.

The ruling class in this film needs periodic revolts if only to unite the classes against one another. this critique is so on point that people in this very thread fell into their roles and cannot break out of the paradigm, even when they think they are (rooting for the rich people to slaughter the poor people).

But here's the thing, Chris Evans is not the hero of the film. The drug-addicted couple is. Because they are the only ones who can see the class struggle, as advocated by communist and capitalist dogma, is a bunch of BS. It is not a wall, it's just a door. The only solution, the only true revolution, is to stop the train. That means not revolution to just put a new dictator on the throne (SEE Cuba, USSR, Venezuela, Yugoslavia, etc), but to completely dismantle the system as it existed. To go to the complete unknown...

... to innovate. They are the only characters who actually take risk. They are the ones who attempt to break free of the paradigm and create an entirely new reality. They are advocating, politically, pure libertarianism. They are advocating a full breakdown of all political structure, and starting from scratch. Now, as a political theory, that's not really a workable model, but as a radical piece of filmmaking, it really shows how timid your standard "radical" communists are, advocating a century's old idea.

The polar bear shows that life finds a way to survive. It's a metaphor.
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
150681 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:21 am to
quote:

Didn't read. You watched a shitty movie. im going to duck behind some cover because of the downvotes coming because people on this site blows that movie like a hungry fat girl

That's the thing though, it's more than just a "shitty movie." I don't think the movie itself was very good at all, but at the same time, I thought it was good enough, and certainly entertaining.

I forgot to shout out to the tunnel scene earlier. That was pretty cool, and went along with the violence that I talked about.
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
150681 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:23 am to
quote:

uh oh...you mentioned the polar bear

is it Baloo or Freuxzen that thinks people that get hung up on the polar bear are idiots?




I think the polar bear was a metaphor that completely missed the point. If they wanted to show life, they could've shown a different animal, or maybe even some plant life. But if the end of that movie was supposed to show the viewer "hope," then it missed. Badly IMO.
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:25 am to
Part of my love for the movie is how much my wife hates it. Why does she hate it? Because, early in the movie, the violinist claims to be the former first chair at the Philharmonic and my wife is a classically trained musician, and we have friends who are professional musicians and... the Philharmonic does not have a first chair. They have a First Principle and so on.

I kind of love her for this, the ultimate pedantic nitpick in the history of movies. She gets very mad when they get classical music wrong.
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37263 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:28 am to
It's an adult fairy tale, that's kind of the point, which means, yes, parts of the narrative are manipulated specifically to create specific symbolism. It's supposed to be kind of ambiguous about things like sleeping cars and what the thawing of ice means, just that, in that world, it means life can survive.

And yeah, what Baloo said.
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
150681 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:38 am to
I guess I missed this thread. FWIW, I don't disagree with a lot of what you said, but you clearly got much more from the film than I did.

I actually agree with your interpretation of it to a large degree, especially about the political and class implications and how Evans isn't the hero, at least technically.

quote:

I think the movie is f'n brilliant. People criticizing realism regarding the polar bear are, frankly, morons. It's a movie in which the major plot device is a PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE. How about we grant that the movie is not grounded in reality, and is instead a formalistic dark fairy tale? The movie never attempts to make its setting "realistic". It's a damn allegory.

I don't think it's "brilliant," but that is personal opinion, so I won't argue it. I will defend my position though, in that I'm not criticizing the polar bear as much in "realism" as I am as what it was supposed to represent. IMO they missed the mark badly on that. And I think it's completely fair to criticize that aspect.

And you can say the movie is not grounded in reality, but that's sort of an easy way out, or a copout to a degree. Movies should still be rooted in their own universes. And I'm not so much saying that this one is not as much as I'm saying that the ending doesn't make any real sense if you look at it honestly.
quote:

Because they are the only ones who can see the class struggle, as advocated by communist and capitalist dogma, is a bunch of BS. It is not a wall, it's just a door. The only solution, the only true revolution, is to stop the train. That means not revolution to just put a new dictator on the throne (SEE Cuba, USSR, Venezuela, Yugoslavia, etc), but to completely dismantle the system as it existed. To go to the complete unknown...

... to innovate. They are the only characters who actually take risk. They are the ones who attempt to break free of the paradigm and create an entirely new reality. They are advocating, politically, pure libertarianism. They are advocating a full breakdown of all political structure, and starting from scratch. Now, as a political theory, that's not really a workable model, but as a radical piece of filmmaking, it really shows how timid your standard "radical" communists are, advocating a century's old idea.

I get what you're saying, but I disagree that the only solution is to stop the train. Or better yet, to completely destroy it. Now, I guess you could argue that their goal wasn't to derail the train or cause the avalanche, but surely you have to assume that they know that blowing up the front of a train is bad news.

And now that they control the train, they can deconstruct the political system in any way that they please. It doesn't have to mean anarchy and "let's blow this bitch up." The asian dude and his daughter are, IMO, the most selfish people on the train. They care solely about themselves and not about anything else on that train, even though that train represents all life on earth. Think about it, it's not like this is one of many trains, or one part of many tribes of humans...this is all of humanity that is left. And their only goal is getting out, despite that literally jeopardizing human beings as a whole. That's a pretty awful way to act IMO. Even if they wanted off the train, they could've perhaps achieved that without compromising the only bastion of humanity left on the planet.

And that's not even getting into the whole idea that they have no idea if the world is even inhabitable yet...he's only going on the fact that the snow has retracted ten feet in the last few years.
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
150681 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:39 am to
quote:

Part of my love for the movie is how much my wife hates it. Why does she hate it? Because, early in the movie, the violinist claims to be the former first chair at the Philharmonic and my wife is a classically trained musician, and we have friends who are professional musicians and... the Philharmonic does not have a first chair. They have a First Principle and so on.

I kind of love her for this, the ultimate pedantic nitpick in the history of movies. She gets very mad when they get classical music wrong.



Is that the only reason she hates it? Because there are far more reasons than that, but if that's why then that's pretty awesome.
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
150681 posts
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:41 am to
quote:

It's an adult fairy tale, that's kind of the point, which means, yes, parts of the narrative are manipulated specifically to create specific symbolism. It's supposed to be kind of ambiguous about things like sleeping cars and what the thawing of ice means, just that, in that world, it means life can survive.

Sure. An adult fairy tale, if that's what you guys want to call it. I can get onboard with that (pun like halfway intended).

But that doesn't mean that the delivery should be completely stupid (at least at times), or that calling it a fairy tale whitewashes the slate and allows the movie to get away with whatever it wants.
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