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Let's discuss - was Vader a good leader or a poor one? What about Yoda?

Posted on 1/5/19 at 2:12 pm
Posted by Methuselah
On da Riva
Member since Jan 2005
23350 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 2:12 pm
I've been watching the Original Trilogy marathon on TBS and it got me to thinking.

How good at actually leading people was Vader? His primary motivating tool was intimidation and force chocking mf'ers.

On the one hand, he did achieve nearly wiping out the Jedi and getting those lazy imperials to finish the Death Star on time.

On the other hand, he kinda failed at his ultimate goal each time. Of course the whole "only two Sith at a time" thing had him and the Emperor trying to recruit Luke to kill the other one so he was kind of hampered there.

Yoda's primary method just seemed to be kind of whining at Luke not to do things and then letting him go ahead and do them anyway.
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
50742 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 2:16 pm to
Vader was a follower, not a leader.
Posted by Methuselah
On da Riva
Member since Jan 2005
23350 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 2:38 pm to
True, he did follow tbe emperor. But he was in charge of a ton of people (and clones)
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 2:44 pm to
Vader was more the Emperor’s personal enforcer and head of his Gestapo. He’s not that effective of a leader because he terrifies the troops, but he’s great for fricking people’s worlds up. Vader pretty much only had authority when others were fricking up and the Emperor needed to put a gun to their head.
Posted by SlapahoeTribe
Tiger Nation
Member since Jul 2012
12708 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 2:48 pm to
If Vader has been my father I would’ve joined him a ruled the galaxy.
Posted by Methuselah
On da Riva
Member since Jan 2005
23350 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 2:54 pm to
quote:

If Vader has been my father I would’ve joined him a ruled the galaxy.



You think Vader and Luke could have taken the Emperor?
Posted by SlapahoeTribe
Tiger Nation
Member since Jul 2012
12708 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 2:56 pm to
quote:

You think Vader and Luke could have taken the Emperor?

Yep.


This post was edited on 1/5/19 at 3:01 pm
Posted by saintsfan22
baton rouge
Member since May 2006
80358 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 3:09 pm to
quote:

On the one hand, he did achieve nearly wiping out the Jedi

He killed some kids, one old guy who quit mid-fight, and waited for another old guy to die.
Posted by Methuselah
On da Riva
Member since Jan 2005
23350 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 3:40 pm to
quote:

He killed some kids, one old guy who quit mid-fight, and waited for another old guy to die.

I thought in one of the prequels they showed him roaming around wiping out Jedi all over the place? He had some drones or clones with him? No?
Posted by TheTideMustRoll
Birmingham, AL
Member since Dec 2009
10700 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 3:50 pm to
Vader was great at getting people to do things. He was not great at helping them figure out how to accomplish complex goals, because he himself did not seem very great at accomplishing complex goals. He understood only force, and his main problem-solving method was “if something doesn’t do what you want, hit it again, but harder this time.” Witness his response when Admiral Piett told him the Millennium Falcon had taken refuge in an asteroid field, where the fleet could not follow them: “Asteroids do not concern me, Admiral. I want that ship, not excuses.” Contrast him with Palpatine, who reveled in his own cleverness and was certainly capable of playing a very long and devious game in order to get what he wanted.

Yoda, meanwhile, was an exceptionally poor leader (at least at the end of his life, since he was presumably Grandmaster of the Jedi Order for quite a long time prior to our first encounter with him). He might be forgiven for failing to detect the fact that Palpatine was in fact a Sith Lord, but certainly he should have realized before he did that the Senator/Chancellor was the main benefactor of all the events surrounding the Clone Wars and therefore a prime suspect for having set it all up, especially once the clone army was discovered, since that was very clearly planned by someone well in advance. And then, once Sidious had triumphed and Yoda realized it was too late to try and stop him, what was his big plan? Go hide in a swamp and wait twenty years for Skywalker’s kids to grow up so he could kick the problem down the road to the next generation. Never mind the fact that waiting would result in a grand total of two potential Jedi in the galaxy to try and stop the Empire - the same number, you might note, as Yoda and Obi-Wan themselves made. No, best to let some kids handle it. They’d clearly do a better job than two fully-trained and experienced Jedi Knights, one of whom had just bested Vader in a one-on-one fight.
Posted by STLDawg
The Lou
Member since Apr 2015
4562 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 4:34 pm to
None of them were leaders like her.
Posted by TheTideMustRoll
Birmingham, AL
Member since Dec 2009
10700 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 4:46 pm to
Vader: “My plan is to use you to attain my own goals, mostly likely hurting or killing you in the process.”

Yoda: “No plan I have. Hide I will.”

Holdo: “I have a plan, but I won’t tell anyone what it is, not even those who presumably need to know at least the critical part they are expected to play in its execution.”

Tough choice.
Posted by Nguyener
Kame House
Member since Mar 2013
21057 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 4:47 pm to
quote:

was Vader a good leader


Vader was an absolutely perfect, ruthless, follower of orders and killing machine. He wasn't a leader. Palpatine was the master mind. Vader was his weapon. A perfect weapon.
Posted by PsychTiger
Member since Jul 2004
109264 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 4:48 pm to
Giraffes make the best leaders.
Posted by Nguyener
Kame House
Member since Mar 2013
21057 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 4:48 pm to
quote:


He killed some kids, one old guy who quit mid-fight, and waited for another old guy to die.


Have you never seen A New Hope or read any lore or books or seen any cartoons or played any video games?

quote:

A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights
This post was edited on 1/5/19 at 4:57 pm
Posted by saintsfan22
baton rouge
Member since May 2006
80358 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 5:54 pm to
quote:

I thought in one of the prequels they showed him roaming around wiping out Jedi all over the place? He had some drones or clones with him? No?



The clones did all the heavy lifting on the Jedi, though it was hardly heavy, they just all went done like dumb bitches. He killed 6 year olds then went and talked to Natalie Portman. He killed the green Chinese guys after that then Obi Wan cut him in half.
This post was edited on 1/5/19 at 5:55 pm
Posted by saintsfan22
baton rouge
Member since May 2006
80358 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 5:55 pm to
quote:

or read any lore or books or seen any cartoons or played any video games?

Nah that's lame

quote:

A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights

Lucas changed his minds with the prequels.
This post was edited on 1/5/19 at 5:57 pm
Posted by SundayFunday
Member since Sep 2011
10382 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 6:38 pm to
quote:

Vader was an absolutely perfect, ruthless, follower of orders and killing machine. He wasn't a leader. Palpatine was the master mind. Vader was his weapon. A perfect weapon.




Well put. While Vader is the Face of the Evil Empire in Star Wars 4-6, he is not a "Leader" in the way we think of one. Taken as a whole, The Emperor is the obvious mastermind and the real Leader of the Dark Side of the Sith+Empire (I know much same thing) for the entirety of the first 6 movies. Vader is exactly what Palpatine wanted him to be, a Sword. Blind, obedient, and Almost as powerful as he is...almost.

Vader is driven entirely by Hate and Anger. He's not so much Master of the Dark Side as a vessel for is unleashing.

He can physically leader a group of clones because they fear him.

Palpatine can lead an empire because he can use the force to literally bend bend their will and warp their minds.
Posted by KirkLazarus
Member since Aug 2017
3574 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 7:16 pm to
The Emperor is essentially Sean Peyton while Vader is Drew Brees, just a really talented grunt. But they need each other

ETA: Anakin never took Obi Wan or any of the other leaderships lessons on leadership, it would have been different if Qui Gon lived.
This post was edited on 1/5/19 at 7:17 pm
Posted by theunknownknight
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
60921 posts
Posted on 1/5/19 at 8:54 pm to
Yoda was the Bill Clinton of Star Wars.

Everything really started going to shite under his passive leadership but everyone around, including him, was too stupid to notice.

This post was edited on 1/5/19 at 8:55 pm
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