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Kubrick was meticulous, but he still missed a detail in The Shining

Posted on 3/6/20 at 9:04 pm
Posted by Stonehog
Platinum Rewards Club
Member since Aug 2011
34172 posts
Posted on 3/6/20 at 9:04 pm
I'm watching it right now on BBC America, and whenever Jack goes to the bar, he always orders a bourbon on the rocks. But the bartender pours him Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels is not bourbon. This has always irritated me for some reason.
Posted by Ham Solo
Member since Apr 2015
8248 posts
Posted on 3/6/20 at 9:11 pm to
You should just chalk this up to Stanley trying to send you a secret message. Probably about faking the moon landing.
Posted by GeauxBichGeaux
Member since Apr 2017
1347 posts
Posted on 3/6/20 at 9:33 pm to
its 70s colorado. bourbon just means american whiskey, like a coke in the south was any soda.
Posted by Stonehog
Platinum Rewards Club
Member since Aug 2011
34172 posts
Posted on 3/6/20 at 9:40 pm to
quote:

its 70s colorado.


In a fancy hotel. They would have known what's bourbon and what's not. It's not a gas station.
Posted by Rep520
Member since Mar 2018
10476 posts
Posted on 3/6/20 at 10:02 pm to
Posted by mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Member since Nov 2015
39420 posts
Posted on 3/6/20 at 10:42 pm to
quote:

Jack Daniel’s is not bourbon. That is the correct answer. Although it is made almost exactly like bourbon, and pretty much tastes like bourbon, Jack Daniel’s is a little bit different so its makers prefer to call it Tennessee whiskey.

That is all true; undisputed, in fact.

It only gets murky when people try to guess why Jack Daniel’s is not called bourbon. They usually assume it cannot be called bourbon. They further assume that the pre-barrel charcoal leaching process that makes Jack Daniel’s a little bit different is prohibited in the rules that govern bourbon production.

It is not.

The assumption that the so-called ‘Lincoln County Process’ prevents Jack Daniel’s from being called bourbon isn’t just wrong, it is perfectly wrong. Jack Daniel’s doesn’t want to be bourbon, not now, not ever. To its makers and legion of fans, Jack Daniel’s is everything bourbon is and more.

The makers of Jack Daniel’s have believed this back to and including Jack himself. Many years ago, the company took steps to prevent the Federal government from forcing them to call their whiskey ‘bourbon.’

That is why some people insist that Jack Daniel’s is bourbon, because it meets every legal requirement. ‘Bourbon in all but name’ is another way of saying it.


When they eventually did submit their label for approval, they did not use the bourbon classification. That began a series of negotiations between the government and Lem Motlow’s son, Reagor. The family had never called their whiskey bourbon before and they didn’t intend to start now.

“Jack Daniel’s was told by the government that they had to call it a Bourbon,” explained a Jack Daniel’s spokesperson. “We objected and used the fact that our whiskey is different and ‘doesn’t have the characteristics of a bourbon.’” Reagor Motlow made several trips to the government office in Louisville to argue his case. Tests were conducted in the government laboratory there. In the end, the government concluded that Jack Daniel’s Tennessee Whiskey had “neither the characteristics of bourbon or rye whiskey but rather is a distinctive product which may be labeled whiskey.”

'Tennessee whiskey’ is still not recognized as a classification in the Federal code, but the Tennessee legislature has enshrined a definition in Tennessee law."
Posted by Fewer Kilometers
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2007
38447 posts
Posted on 3/6/20 at 11:03 pm to
If you’ve never ordered a bourbon and received Jack Daniels, you don’t order much bourbon.
Posted by Parmen
Member since Apr 2016
18317 posts
Posted on 3/6/20 at 11:17 pm to
quote:

Stonehog


quote:

But the bartender pours him Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels is not bourbon. This has always irritated me for some reason.


Weird melt.

Posted by Pandy Fackler
Member since Jun 2018
21114 posts
Posted on 3/6/20 at 11:34 pm to
quote:

Weird melt.


It's not really a "melt" though. It's an observation and a somewhat interesting one actually.
Posted by mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Member since Nov 2015
39420 posts
Posted on 3/7/20 at 1:12 am to
Bond called Jack Daniels Bourbon too.

quote:

quote:

Bond drinks Jack Daniels in the novel Her Majesty's Secret Service (Ian Fleming, 1963), the novel You Only Live Twice (Ian Fleming, 1964) and in the movie GoldenEye (1995).

In the movie GoldenEye Bond is drinking Jack Daniel's whiskey with M in her office. The bottle can be seen on the counter, at around 49 minutes into the movie. it looks like M and Bond drink from Duralex tumblers.

The name is not mentioned, but the drink is only referred to as 'bourbon', which technically is incorrect since Jack Daniel's is a Tennessee Whiskey.

M: Would you care for a drink?
007: Your predessesor kept some cognac in the top drawer of...
M: I prefer Bourbon. Ice?
007: Yes.

In the novel On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Bond pours himself "a stiff Jack Daniel's sourmash bourbon on the rocks and added some water" (Ian Fleming, 1963), when he is in Draco's office.





So Jack is really just Bourbon but it's makers wanted to separate themselves and lobbied for it to be called another name. Tennessee Whiskey which is just a made up trademark name and not a classification for booze.
This post was edited on 3/7/20 at 1:17 am
Posted by Ham Solo
Member since Apr 2015
8248 posts
Posted on 3/7/20 at 1:27 am to
quote:

It's not really a "melt" though. It's an observation and a somewhat interesting one actually.


I agree. It would take a serious amount of research though. You would have to understand bourbon/whiskey culture, which I have some familiarity with, but apply it to what that culture meant in the 70s.

I don't think anything is going on here other than someone not understanding the strict rules of bourbon. I don't expect to find anything though. Kubrick is the master of hidden messages, but right now I think this is simply a misunderstanding of Bourbon and whiskey.
Posted by SEClint
New Orleans, LA/Portland, OR
Member since Nov 2006
49487 posts
Posted on 3/7/20 at 2:59 am to
Jack didnt know the difference and didnt care.

And so the hotel was purposely and mockingly giving him something other than what he thought he wanted, and he savored the consumption.

He consumed..and was devoured.
Posted by Proximo
Member since Aug 2011
24214 posts
Posted on 3/7/20 at 5:39 am to
This reads like it’s just a marketing ploy
Posted by Tigertown in ATL
Georgia foothills
Member since Sep 2009
30333 posts
Posted on 3/7/20 at 7:00 am to
quote:

Kubrick was meticulous,


Yes, he meticulously created a horrible bastardized rendering of the book.
Posted by PetroBabich
Donetsk Oblast
Member since Apr 2017
5142 posts
Posted on 3/7/20 at 8:15 am to
You can see the shadow of the helicopter filming when the family is driving in. You can see the shadow of the camera rig when it's zooming in on the party picture at the end. These are big misses imo
Posted by rebelrouser
Columbia, SC
Member since Feb 2013
13278 posts
Posted on 3/7/20 at 8:45 am to
He took out all of the overly sentimental King bullshite. King writes stories that are 90% great and 10% cringe worthy. Kubrick cleaned that up for him.
Posted by Tigertown in ATL
Georgia foothills
Member since Sep 2009
30333 posts
Posted on 3/7/20 at 10:44 am to
quote:

Kubrick cleaned that up for him.


No, he changed the book. The movie is not even the same as the book
Posted by Philzilla2k
Member since Oct 2017
12763 posts
Posted on 3/7/20 at 10:53 am to
quote:

They would have known what's bourbon and what's not.

The ghost would have known.....
Posted by memphis tiger
Memphis, TN
Member since Feb 2006
20720 posts
Posted on 3/7/20 at 11:19 am to
quote:

Reagor Motlow



Sounds like a Game of Thrones character
Posted by Stonehog
Platinum Rewards Club
Member since Aug 2011
34172 posts
Posted on 3/7/20 at 12:34 pm to
quote:

That is why some people insist that Jack Daniel’s is bourbon, because it meets every legal requirement. ‘Bourbon in all but name’ is another way of saying it.


quote:

In the end, the government concluded that Jack Daniel’s Tennessee Whiskey had “neither the characteristics of bourbon or rye whiskey but rather is a distinctive product which may be labeled whiskey.”


I guess we're both right.
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