re: Ken Burns’ The US and the Holocaust

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I’m a soft Zionist and big supporter of Israel,

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Cringe.

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Literally almost every one of the allies until we had war declared on us by Japan in 1941?

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None of the belligerent nations, Axis or Allies, did anything at all to stop the Holocaust before 1941, or really even the middle of 1943/44 when they started coming across the camps in the Balkans/Eastern Front etc.

Nor were any of them positioned to do so.

The United States was never going to be ready to go to war in Europe in this 1939 fantasy.

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Truly, some of you are so far down the rabbit hole that actual history, facts, and any attempt at critical thinking are now enemies

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The part where your entire prior post is premised on the idea that anyone in the United States knew the true extent of what was happening in Germany.

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Given how fricked over the Jews have gotten in history, if any religious group needs its own state for their own protection, it’s the Jewish people. Now I don’t care specifically where said state should be. Like I’d want to move them down to the California Baja. The only major difference between the Sea of Galilee and the Sea of Cortez is world class sports fishing. Just go over there, dig up the top six inches of soil in Israel, spread it over the peninsula, and start anew. We’ll just wait to invade when the Mexicans pass out at 3:00 AM from all the drinking and take it before they sober up and know what’s happened to them. Just call it New Israel.

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Historical crimes against the Jews does not justify ethnic cleansing as a restitutional correction.

That's like claiming anti-Chinese and anti-Japanese treatment in America should be restituted by stealing more native land from the Native Americans and putting the rest in open air prisons as you slowly wither away at the rest while holding the population in never-ending martial law.

Jews can both deserve a homeland but also be wrong for how they have conducted themselves in the present day. But I love how you take this righteous indignation posture everywhere you go when turns out, you are an unapologetic supporter of modern ethnic cleansing.

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The part where your entire prior post is premised on the idea that anyone in the United States knew the true extent of what was happening in Germany.

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America was keenly and firmly aware of the escalatory rhetoric and violence of the Nazis toward Jews/Communists/Socialists/social deviants. Stuff like the Kristallnacht attacks were all over the papers. Which, if you arent familiar, was when Nazis orchestrated a night of violence against Jews and killed hundreds. This was on top of all the other shite they were already beginning to do such as put them in ghettos, strip them of liberties, commit acts of violence, and up the exterminationst rhetoric. Meanwhile, Americans were overwhelmingly opposed to taking in refugees.

As the documentary shows, we were aware of a lot of stuff, and openly talked about it. And also, more than a few Americans defended the actions and underlying justifications for it.








OML would have been cheering this one on:





This was public opinion after the Kristallnacht attacks



The first clippings were all from 1938, concentration camps for political prisoners and "deviants" were reported as far back as 33. As were reports of murder, atrocity, and mistreatment of Jews/Socialists/Communists

And in your mind knowing that Kristallnacht and similar events were taking place is akin to knowing the extent of what the Germans were actually doing with the Jews?

And lets just assume that everyone knew the full extent. Do you actually believe that the United States was capable of stopping those events in the mid-late 1930's when they took place? Do you think we just chose not to invade Germany itself until 1944, or do you think its possible that it was a function of our capabilities?

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And in your mind knowing that Kristallnacht and similar events were taking place is akin to knowing the extent of what the Germans were actually doing with the Jews?

And lets just assume that everyone knew the full extent. Do you actually believe that the United States was capable of stopping those events in the mid-late 1930's when they took place? Do you think we just chose not to invade Germany itself until 1944, or do you think its possible that it was a function of our capabilities?

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We were very much capable of taking in A LOT more refugees that sought entrance than we did, so yes, we could have done more, but failed to. We also could have entered sooner, yes.

You can either continue to gaslight or learn from history and encourage us to do better next time

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I didn't ask you if we could have taken in more Jews. I asked if you thought the United States could have prevented anything that Germany was doing by entering the war in 1939.

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You are constructing a straw man.

No one is arguing or has attempted to argue that America could have put an immediate full stop to Germany's aggressions against its neighbors or people by 1939, but that premise doesn't somehow magically justify America sitting on their hands for years and refusing to take in much more refugees than we did.

Had America been more proactive about getting Jews out of Germany and Austria fewer would have died, yes. That is unequivocally true.

You can either accept history as it was and is, or continue to gaslight and try and revise it.

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Meh. No one disputes we could have taken more in.

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Clearly several responses in this thread and your initial posture suggested otherwise.

The documentary also talks about the "why" we were so reluctant.

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Clearly several responses in this thread and your initial posture suggested otherwise.

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I don't see why we were under any obligation to do so. Not sure why this is such a controversial opinion.