re: Just watched Attack of the Clones

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It did have a really huge momment where Anakin slaughters the village. Watching his mother die starts him on his descent. It validated his vision and all of his fears. His rage gave him power. I wish they would have showed more of that. But they were still trying to be kid friendly..

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And then after he tells a Queen and politician how he ruthlessly murdered an entire village she falls in love with him and marries the monster.

That made no sense at all.

Padme gave me quite the wank material in my younger days.

Peak Portman really is that POS only saving grace.

But, you gotta admit. It also spawned a million memes, jokes, and gifs with the zenith of stonily delivered one-liners.

“I hate sand!”

I'm gonna try to keep this mostly to one response, for convenience purposes...

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Destruction of characters and their mythos for no particular reason.

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Be specific. Are you talking about Luke? His reasoning for his decisions are pretty clearly explained in the movie.

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An entire arc/storyline that serves no purpose in advancing the overall story. Hell, the entire movie served no purpose in the grand scheme.

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I assume, specifically, that you are talking about the Finn/Rose subplot? I agree with you that it was basically useless. Had it worked though, it would have meant a lot more obviously.

Either way, I won't argue about how bad Rose/Finn are/were, especially Rose. She is one of the things I think are truly stupid about the movie, and her actions make absolutely zero sense. I won't argue her at all.

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Characters that are abysmally bad and exist for no clear purpose, whose actions merely are performed to generate storylines that make no sense. Specifically Holdo.

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I remember when she got LOADS of hate after this came out. But after rewatch, I don't get the hate really. She did was she thought was best (and at the behest of Leia for a lot of it, even), and even stayed behind as a decoy and sacrificed herself to save as many of her people as possible.

One thing I didn't really get was why they kept allowing all of their sub-ships to be destroyed with everyone on board. Why not dock them to the main ship and offload everyone to save lives? Unless I missed that discussion in the movie.

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the hyperspace crash scene created huge problems

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How so?

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Jokes that are stylized after the MCU movies, specifically the opening scene, that really shouldn’t be in the movie.

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Eh, some of the jokes missed. But SW has always had some humor in it. Maybe there were more missed attempts than there should have been, but you can't fault them for trying.

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Turning villains, such as Hux, into slapstick comedy characters.

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I won't argue with that. Some of that came out of nowhere and felt strange.

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Killing off characters like Phasma and Snoke with no forethought or planning.

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I thought Snoke's made some sense. It at least fell into line with the inner turmoil that Kylo Ren had. Phasma wasn't some huge character really, so that one was whatever for me.

I guess it just comes down to personal preference in a lot of spots. And upon rewatch, most of the things didn't bother me near as much as I expected them to.

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TLJ changed how people saw heroes and gave non-traditional SW elements.

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Like what? Be specific please. Everyone speaks in generalities about this movie, and rarely do they ever get into exactly why they hate it. That is what I don't understand.

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For example, in TFA, Luke left a map in his R2 droid to be able to find him. In TLJ, he didn’t want to be found and had basically gone to that island to die. That doesn’t make sense. If he didn’t want to be found, he wouldn’t have left behind a map to his location.

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To be fair, Luke left only part of a map inside R2D2. The majority of the map was given to Poe/BB8 by someone else who wanted to help The Resistance find Skywalker.

I found this in Wookiepedia...Lor San Tekka is the dude's name apparently:

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After Skywalker's new generation of Jedi was destroyed by his nephew and apprentice, Kylo Ren, Skywalker went into exile and sought out the first Jedi Temple on Ahch-To. San Tekka, who retired to a spiritual village on the planet Jakku, discovered a fragment of a map that could lead to Ahch-To. He was sought by the Resistance, led by Skywalker's sister, General Leia Organa, as well as the resurgent Imperial force known as the First Order. San Tekka gave the map fragment to Resistance Commander Poe Dameron and was soon captured by Kylo Ren, who demanded to know where the map was. When San Tekka refused to comply, Ren killed him. San Tekka's sacrifice was not in vain; the map was given to the Resistance, and a young Force-user named Rey followed it to Ahch-To and found the exiled Jedi Master.

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So it's not like Luke left a breadcrumb trail to where he was. There was part of a map inside R2D2 and then other people found/made maps to the place where they thought Luke might be.

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In ROTJ, Luke’s defining quality is that he sees the good in people. He never gives up on his father no matter what Vader had done to people. He continues to believe his father can be good, and his faith is rewarded. In TLJ he attempts to murder his nephew based on a bad dream. That doesn’t make sense for his character at all! There’s a million different reasons why Ben could have had a falling out with Luke, but that one just doesn’t make any sense for the character.

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But it makes sense as to why Luke and Kylo had a falling out though. And Luke didn't "attempt to murder" him. He thought about it for a split second, and then thought better of it.

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I am not trying to be obstinate. Just wanted to discuss/debate why people hate TLJ so much because I honestly don't get it after rewatching it this week.

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The biggest reason it is shite is because it is an utter irrelevant film - like Episode I. The protagonist and antagonist don’t move along the timeline at all.

Far more significant plot events happen in the first 15 minutes of TROS than the entirety of TLJ.

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My only response to that is that Rey can now harness the Force a lot better,

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But how? She never earns that. That is an enormous problem with plot development. Just adding all these attributes to your protagonist without ever developing the character is the definition of poor writing.

It would like watching the original Rocky and at the end Balbo goes toe to toe with Creed after spending a whole filming sitting at bar and working at the butcher factory. We would all sit there and say “what the frick is this shite?”

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and KR assumes command as Supreme Leader

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See above.

AotC is everything bad about the prequels with none of the good.

I wanted to downvote, but, realized it wasn't a bad post. It was a good post about a garbage movie.

I recently re-watched. terrible

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Easy - not advance it.

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See, I think this all boils down to that.

I think TLJ would have been MUCH better received had it been a stand-alone film in the SW universe. Or hell, even just an offshoot of the main storyline. The problem is that it is part 8 in a 9-part series (or part 2 in a 3-part, if we go that route). So that is where it kinda fails. And while I do think that it succeeds in areas that a lot of people clearly don't, I can somewhat agree with that. Had they let JJ Abrams just do his thing for three movies, we would have gotten a lot more cohesive story that flowed a lot better. And I think that is the crux of the hatred.