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re: HOTD: S2 Episode 3 (Spoilers) 9pm ET
Posted on 7/1/24 at 8:46 am to SECSolomonGrundy
Posted on 7/1/24 at 8:46 am to SECSolomonGrundy
Well, she did try to tell R that she no longer had any power, which was the truth.
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Posted on 7/1/24 at 8:57 am to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
It made for an interesting scene, but i dont know if it moved the plot along at all. We already knew Alicent misunderstood the king on his death bed. We already knew of the prophecy of the TPWWP.
Seriously? As a viewer we knew, but Alicent knew neither of those things. Alicent genuinely thought it was her son being talked about, now she knows it was just a fever dream that was about Aegon the Conqueror. She had a chance to say ok I'm in the wrong here and could try and make this right and she didn't. Rhaenyra has no reason to not make this even bloodier now/bloodier than she would have wanted. Definitely moved the story along.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:00 am to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
Bc we get the whole speech from Alicent about how its too late and it doesnt matter. We also have it made clear that Alicent made a mistake. She now knows it, but is powerless to stop it. Is that not limiting her culpability?
I don’t think so, because her “mistake” (hearing what she wanted to hear) still led her to usurp the throne. She kicked this whole thing off. That doesn’t change just because she might be regretting it now that it’s spiraled out of her control.
quote:
These two women are at the root of the war. Rhaenyra bc she wanted to throw her pussy around and pretend her bastards were the real heir. And Alicent bc her daddy told her, here's your one chance Fancy dont let me down.
The show makes all of this pretty clear. Which is why I don’t really understand the complaints about “culpability.” The story is being told largely from the perspective of the two women. So yeah, you see some nuance to some of those decisions because of that perspective. But it’s still clear that their actions and decisions led to all of this.
If anything, I think they both look rather weak and naive - perfectly willing to start a war but hesitant when it comes to decisions that might end it quickly, with much less bloodshed.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:02 am to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
Team Green is what, maybe 10% of the audience? The only thing likeable about the Greens is the actors are doing a good job. They made the Hightowers like the Lannisters, pretty clear antagonists. I thought the show would be more of a "pick a side" saga, but it seems very favorable to Rheanyra's faction.
My point is that I think they are offering more depth to these characters than the accounts in the book ever could. They aren't making the Greens likeable but making the audiences think a bit more about why things unfolded the way they did. Otto Hightower clearly bears a lot of responsibility for this mess, but his exchange with Aegon last week makes you think that maybe this guy really is just doing what he thinks is right for the realm instead of just getting his blood on the throne. Opinions will vary, but I think it makes him a more compelling character.
This post was edited on 7/1/24 at 9:04 am
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:08 am to Crimson K
He claiming to be the half brother (bastard) of Viserys and Daemon
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:09 am to lostinbr
quote:
If anything, I think they both look rather weak and naive - perfectly willing to start a war but hesitant when it comes to decisions that might end it quickly, with much less bloodshed.
I think that's just it. They are portrayed more as victims of circumstances. Maybe that's not an unfair portrayal but they could have gone a different, especially with Alicent. As I've stated, I don't have a problem with it but I can see where some might.
At any rate, after last night there should be a lot less holding back. As Aegon II said, "To war then."
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:20 am to Jorts R Us
quote:
I think that's just it. They are portrayed more as victims of circumstances.
I don’t agree with this at all. Being weak doesn’t make them victims. If they are victims of circumstance, it’s because of circumstances they created.
Again I think it’s pretty clear from the show how the women caused all of this. It seems like some of y’all are trying much harder to absolve the women than the showrunners, which I don’t really understand.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:23 am to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
Bc we get the whole speech from Alicent about how its too late and it doesnt matter. We also have it made clear that Alicent made a mistake. She now knows it, but is powerless to stop it. Is that not limiting her culpability?
I mean, how do you suggest she try to stop it at this point? It was made pretty clear at the most recent Council meeting that it’s not the Aegon and Cole Show. She made the comment at the table that Cole’s plot to assassinate Rhaenyra was risky at best and got completely dismissed. She could try to rally the houses against war, but as we saw with the Brackens and Blackwoods, sometimes people want to spill blood and just need an excuse.
That all said, I still don’t think it removes her culpability. She enabled her son and Cole to be in the positions they’re in. She put her son on the throne. Just because the cart has gotten away from her doesn’t mean she isn’t going to suffer from her choices.
quote:
hese two women are at the root of the war. Rhaenyra bc she wanted to throw her pussy around and pretend her bastards were the real heir. And Alicent bc her daddy told her, here's your one chance Fancy dont let me down.
Rhaenys made a fantastic point when talking to Rhanerya in you can point to so many things as to how the war started or how it could’ve been stopped.
If we want to be technical about it, Viserys could’ve forced the proposal for Jace and Helaena to be married and that could’ve solved several issues. And recommended Driftmark go to one of Daemon’s daughters instead (to appease the Velaryon need for a “pure line”).
Or to go even further back, Rhaenys could’ve been given the crown instead of Viserys.
We can peel it back in a lot of ways.
This post was edited on 7/1/24 at 9:24 am
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:31 am to BluegrassBelle
Also, officially on the can’t wait for Sir Crispy to bite it countdown. I’d have no problem with the show deviating a little from the books to give a more satisfying death for viewers on this one.
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If tweet fails to load, click here.This post was edited on 7/1/24 at 9:32 am
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:36 am to BluegrassBelle
If we are getting technical the Great Council was the real beginning of the strife. Too bad their decision was felt for the next two hundred years
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:40 am to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
And now Alicent knows she is in Kings Landing and she is more determined than ever to fight. She is just gonna let her leave?
Right. This is a bit of a jumped the shark moment. Alicent can very easily have Rheanyra captured and killed while she is dressed in disguise with a dagger in her hand. Nobody would question that Rheanyra was there to kill Alicent or other members of the royal family, especially after the recent beheading of the king's son. At that point, the war is over. The blacks would lose support of most of their allies.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:44 am to DMagic
Rhaenys would’ve been an excellent Queen. And if they were ok with a woman inheriting the crown (and I’d assume they would be if she was rewarded the crown at the Council), her daughter who married Daemon would’ve bore heirs that would appease the Velaryons.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:48 am to BluegrassBelle
Agreed it would’ve put off many other fights in the future especially regarding Dany. Off topic slightly but I wonder if we will ever find out what role the citadel had in bringing down the Targs and their dragons. Alas George is more interested in pizza.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:51 am to UpToPar
quote:
Right. This is a bit of a jumped the shark moment. Alicent can very easily have Rheanyra captured and killed while she is dressed in disguise with a dagger in her hand. Nobody would question that Rheanyra was there to kill Alicent or other members of the royal family, especially after the recent beheading of the king's son. At that point, the war is over. The blacks would lose support of most of their allies.
This whole conflict, Alicent is the one trying to keep others from killing Rhaenyra. Now, when Rhaenyra goes to her to try to stop the war (with a dagger which she does not use), Alicent is going to have her killed? That would be totally out of character.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:56 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
She enabled her son and Cole to be in the positions they’re in. She put her son on the throne. Just because the cart has gotten away from her doesn’t mean she isn’t going to suffer from her choices.
The whole scene of the council not listening to her limits her culpability. Her speech to Rhaenyra limits her culpability. Her being shown to have made a mistake and being so surprised (a great scene) limits her culpability. I guess my question is, are we as a viewer meant to feel sorry for her? I dont, but i think they put some elements in there to make her less evil. I never felt that way about Cersei. She was just a terrible bitch.
Im not saying the characters should be the same. And im really enjoying the show. I just think its an interesting difference in how they are portrayed.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:57 am to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
This whole conflict, Alicent is the one trying to keep others from killing Rhaenyra. Now, when Rhaenyra goes to her to try to stop the war (with a dagger which she does not use), Alicent is going to have her killed? That would be totally out of character.
Alicent is not stupid. She knows that war is inevitable and that lives will be lost during the war. This war only ends one of two ways: with Rheanyra dead or with Aegon dead. As much as Alicent holds a soft spot for Rheanyra, she could have ensured the safety of her offspring.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:59 am to UpToPar
quote:
Right. This is a bit of a jumped the shark moment.
It mirrors the meeting of Elizabeth I and Mary Queen of Scots IRL. Several written accounts claims they did but historians say there is no real evidence that they ever met. And of course what we do have confirmation of is James IV had secret correspondence with Elizabeth I (and became her heir) that others were not aware of until later.
It’s not unheard of that a meeting could take place.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 10:01 am to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
The whole scene of the council not listening to her limits her culpability. Her speech to Rhaenyra limits her culpability. Her being shown to have made a mistake and being so surprised (a great scene) limits her culpability. I guess my question is, are we as a viewer meant to feel sorry for her? I dont, but i think they put some elements in there to make her less evil. I never felt that way about Cersei. She was just a terrible bitch.
You could absolutely argue that Ceresi was a product of growing up as Tywin Lannister’s child. And that she was forced into a loveless marriage with Robert which resulted in her blonde haired children (even if gross because it’s with her twin).
Posted on 7/1/24 at 10:04 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Rhaenyra has no reason to not make this even bloodier now/bloodier than she would have wanted. Definitely moved the story along.
Was there ever any going back after the kid killing and the throne stealing? This conversation did not ignite the war any further. It was good TV. But it was largely impossible and seemed to borrow some of the traveling speed from seasons 6-7 of GOT that just throws all concept of time out the window in order to get to a scene the writers want to show.
And who the hell was Rhaenyra's lone guard and what was he doing?
Posted on 7/1/24 at 10:18 am to 50_Tiger
quote:She definitely realized she fricked up but also knows she can't do anything at this point to stop the war.
That moment when Alicent realized she fricked up but still standing on business
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