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GOT Question About The Army of the Dead?

Posted on 8/16/17 at 12:47 am
Posted by FootballNostradamus
Member since Nov 2009
20509 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 12:47 am
Question for the GOT folks:

This comes from a true Hodor. I watch the show only and don't research leaks or spoilers or really many theories so be patient, but I'm not sure I understand why we're supposed to be so terrified of the Army of the Dead.

We've established that the whites can be killed with fire, and we (humans) have three fire-breathing dragons. Yes this undead army terrifying if you're fighting them hand-to-hand, but once we convince Danny they're real and get her on our side (which surely has to happen), then this great battle for the fate of the human race is kind of a snooze-fest, right?

These things aren't smart enough to build catapults and artillery weapons are they? Does the Night King have some ability to shoot ice stuff ala Mortal Combat or something? If not, then we just send the three dragons, don't even need any men, and just fly over and roast them, right? Battle over?

What am I missing?
Posted by CCT
LA
Member since Dec 2006
6214 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 12:57 am to
No one KNOWS what the hell the Night King is capable of, yet. He's got powers of some sort.
Posted by saintsfan92612
Taiwan
Member since Oct 2008
28854 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 1:00 am to
Well, the wights are stupid, but I think the White Walkers are actually quite smart.

I mean the night king, especially, with how he is constantly interfering with Bran's dreams.

I don't know about any siegecraft or ballistics they might have, but they do have at least one giant and they probably have birds as well (although we haven't seen any yet). The giant would be more than able to throw something big enough to knock a dragon out of the sky where the wights could probably damage it.

I am like you, though. I think that dragons are the ultimate weapon against this army of the dead and three may be overkill so I would be shocked if we don't see the odds evened out a little.

I think the issue is with the sheer numbers of the wights. We have no idea how many there actually are but if every man and creature they kill can become a wight, that makes them far more of a threat...especially if they can find a way to take down the wall.

Posted by JuiceTerry
Roond the Scheme
Member since Apr 2013
40868 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 1:29 am to
quote:

What am I missing?


Go the 3ER thread and you'll find out
Posted by NavyLSUAlum
Portland Oregon
Member since Oct 2005
749 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 2:51 am to
Giants have big arse bows. They could take down a Dragon. And as somebody mentioned the giants could just throw rocks at the Dragons. Remember, Dragons have to get pretty close to breathe. Certainly close enough for Giants to shoot them down. Hell even normal bowmen could hit a dragon, to no effect though.
Posted by Angrybritches
Member since Aug 2017
73 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 2:52 am to
If the army of the dead gets south of the wall there is no telling how many people they can rise up from the dead. They will also turn anyone they defeat in battle. The white walkers have magic capability and they aren't dumb so I'm sure they'll have some sort of power or ability to take down a dragon. I hope we see a dragon fall so we can see a zombie dragon.
Posted by GeauxLSUGeaux
1 room down from Erin Andrews
Member since May 2004
23287 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 6:21 am to
quote:

. I hope we see a dragon fall so we can see a zombie dragon.


Yea, I hope so too
Posted by Hog Zealot
On the Flats
Member since Mar 2012
1626 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 6:43 am to
We have seen the NK use special powers in the past. He caused an ice earthquake at the TER hideout to break the magic.

In the last episode he waved his arms at the ravens flying overhead and it seemed to cause a draft or invisible wave that pushed them off course and away from him.

He has powers, not sure of the extent though.
Posted by SpqrTiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2004
9255 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 6:45 am to
There are a few major issues about fighting the dead.

First, you can't fight them everywhere. Even with dragons. Right now they're contained on the other side of the wall, but once they're loose, they will hit every farm and village between them and Kings Landing, and that's more smallfolk than the castles can contain.

Next, every person you lose fighting them becomes a soldier against you. So things will look great at first, but this enemy gets exponentially stronger as time goes on.

Lastly, there's some powerful magic accompanying them, and they won't be stopped by the bone-chilling cold weather. They will move day and night with no rest and with no regard to snow or weather. That ties in to the first part of my post. They will be wherever you aren't... getting stronger by the day.
Posted by Upperdecker
St. George, LA
Member since Nov 2014
30543 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 6:51 am to
The Giants have massive bows that will work like the Scorpion did on the dragons. And we saw at least two Giants. Plus like everyone else said, the Night King definitely has crazy powers, way beyond what the Children had. And the idea that they can raise any dead that aren't burned or killed by Valyrian steel or Dragonstone is a possible army multiplier for the NK
Posted by PeteRose
Hall of Fame
Member since Aug 2014
16833 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 7:02 am to
I think WW are more peaceful than humans. I have yet to see infighting, incest, torture, backstabbing, betrayal, lying, hungry for power, telling others to bend the knee.


WW seems more organized than humans, more simple. When you see all the bad behaviors of humans on GoT, you think about cheering for the WW. If humans win, all bad human behavior will just repeat, no matter who sits on the IT.
Posted by Sneaky__Sally
Member since Jul 2015
12364 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 7:04 am to
I am guessing It won't be that easy - wouldn't be a very interesting story
Posted by Sneaky__Sally
Member since Jul 2015
12364 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 7:05 am to
Nm
This post was edited on 8/16/17 at 7:13 am
Posted by theunknownknight
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
57252 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 8:35 am to
I have a theory.

The White Walkers built the wall to keep the humans out of their permanent winter in the north. The humans were actually the aggressors in the past able to move freely between summer, spring, fall, winter (all over). This put the White Walkers at a strategic defensive disadvantage in the north. So they built the wall to "protect the winter north".

When the long winter comes, winter spreads all over so they are able to move freely and take the offensive - eradicating the historically hostile humans
Posted by SCLSUMuddogs
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2010
6858 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 8:52 am to
quote:

Hodor


quote:

whites


Hodor is totally a wight now. That's a bummer to think about.
This post was edited on 8/16/17 at 8:53 am
Posted by SCndaBR
BR
Member since Dec 2015
517 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:11 am to
If dragons are technically giant lizards, wouldn't they be cold blooded and require solar energy? So if they fight in the North won't the weather slow them down?
Posted by Scoob
Near Exxon
Member since Jun 2009
20308 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 11:15 am to
quote:

This comes from a true Hodor. I watch the show only and don't research leaks or spoilers or really many theories so be patient, but I'm not sure I understand why we're supposed to be so terrified of the Army of the Dead.

We've established that the whites can be killed with fire, and we (humans) have three fire-breathing dragons
I've also never read the books. Go back and watch the scenes again, especially Hardhomme.

There are 2 classes of bad guy: wights, which is just another way of saying undead or zombies; and White Walkers.

The wights are mindless and nigh indestructible. To stop them, you need to basically destroy them, not just something simple like stab one in the chest. Yes, dragonfire would do the trick. Mechanical destruction also would, by something like getting ridden down and trampled by a cavalry charge... but you don't want to ride into a group so big that it overwhelms the horses. They swarm like ants, and as we saw at Hardhomme, you can run them off a cliff and as long as their limbs don't break off, they get back up and attack.
I don't think dragonglass does anything at all to THEM. And I don't think Valarian steel blades do anything a regular blade wouldn't do. And there's a whole lot of them, between the good guys and the real targets.

So, vs the Dothraki, for instance: yes, the Dothraki can trample a group, and chop them with their curved blades etc. But their arrows would be useless, and they'd have to be careful not to get caught up in a big pack, to where they couldn't ride through. If they get bogged down, they're toast without armor.

Conversely, the White Walkers are vulnerable to Valarian steel and dragonglass. But as we saw in Hardhomme, with the one Jon fought, fire doesn't seem to bother them. I would submit that dragonfire doesn't either, until proven otherwise... you have to take them out with one of the above mentioned methods.

So that means you have to fight them. To do so, you have to get through the giant zombie horde, and even if you do, you actually have to land a hit.

If you're planning an attack right now, the smart move would be to know before it starts where the White Walkers would be, use the dragons to burn a path to them, and have a good group of Dorthraki armed with dragonglass arrows swoop in and fire volleys at them.
Even then, it's got problems- if there's enough zombies, they fill those paths in, and your riders are making suicide runs to get into arrow range... and if the WW use shields then that's likely going to not be effective.

The clear plan of a final battle would be a dragon rider with a Valarian sword coming in and landing... the dragon then burns the zombies to keep them back, while the rider duels the Night King, and beats him 1 on 1.
Posted by PeteRose
Hall of Fame
Member since Aug 2014
16833 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 1:50 pm to
Yeah, from what I've seen, WW actions are reactive to humans instead proactive. It'll be if awesome if NK say something this next episode to show that they're not all hostile and evil.
Posted by ZappBrannigan
Member since Jun 2015
7692 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 2:54 pm to
The wights are just berserker zombies.

The Others are depicted as way less a threat in show than in the book.

But I mean it's simply there exists a limited number of living with the means to destroy them. Fire walls do nothing they just ice em down. You need living fire or stone fire to kill them.

In the show others started out as orcs in the pilot, then they got the budget for better ones later.


Book Others brought the world into a near forever winter, rode ice-spider mounts, talked like crackling ice and had near invisibility from their magicked weapons and armor.
Posted by 1BamaRTR
In Your Head Blvd
Member since Apr 2015
22514 posts
Posted on 8/16/17 at 2:57 pm to
quote:

It'll be if awesome if NK say something this next episode to show that they're not all hostile and evil.

Their language sounds like crackling ice so I'm not sure how that would work.
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