re: GoT "Middle Ground" Thread - Between Seasons Discussion ***Spoilers Possible***

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he's [Blackfish] in the knight's watch

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I don't remember this.

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The bread & salt ritual signifies "guest right," which has ancient meaning/significance in Westeros and is taken very seriously. I think there's an ancient Westeros story that someone served someone his dead son in a pie and he turned into a rat. Ill post the link.

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Martin's treacheries and backstories are all pretty conventional stuff from mythology / Herodotus.

Yeah a wedding murder is pretty much the historical gold standard for treachery. I do hope Edmure survives though.

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Yeah a wedding murder is pretty much the historical gold standard for treachery. I do hope Edmure survives though.

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I would hate to be Edmure once he found out (and assuming they didn't kill him). I mean... it looks like your whole family is dead and you can either join them or be Walder Frey's little bitch (since probably a good chunk of the Tully forces were there and thus murdered as well).

Not the most appealing of choices.

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he's in the knight's watch so he can't benefit personally from it

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I have to clear some things up here, because this seems to be a common misconception because he wears black. Brynden "The Blackfish" Tully (the guy who went to take a piss right before the massacre) is not with the Night's Watch.

This is how he came about the "Blackfish" part of his name (Per the Song of Ice and Fire Wiki, Lord Hoster is Catelyn Stark's father):

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When he returned his relationship with his brother Hoster became strained, after Brynden refused to marry a woman he had chosen for him, to advance the family's fortunes. This led to years of nasty quarrels and estrangement. After one such quarrel with his elder brother, when Lord Hoster called him the "black goat of the Tully herd", Ser Brynden pointed out that their sigil was a fish, so he took the name 'Blackfish,' and changed the Tully emblem to a black trout jumping.[1]

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If you'd like to read further here's his Wiki but beware of spoilers for future events/books/episodes.

LINK

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This show has so many bad arse old dudes. Blackfish, Barrister, etc.... All flexing the old man strength.

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The two you named were the heros of the War of the Ninepenny Kings when they were younger.

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Id be surprised if he were alive

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I honestly don't remember so I am speaking on a level of a non-reader here.

Either way sets up a small issue for the Freys. If he's alive and they send him back to rule over the Tully lands, they will have to send an assload of Frey soldiers since (I'm guessing) that at least some of the Tully men went to the party at The Twins and were killed as well as having to put down any possible rebellion those Tully loyalists might try to cause at their castle (killing the Frey girl and/or Edmure, killing the Twins soldiers, etc). If there is no rebellion or it's easily stopped, any kid they have would inherit all of that thus making the Freys even more powerful.

On the other side is that if they killed Edmure then Walder would be the logical choice for gaining those lands (guessing that Tywin would grant them to the Freys since it was Walder that set up the killing). That still leaves the possiblity of loyalist rebellion though but then they could just lay seige to the castle until the loyalists were starved out, meanwhile killing any peasant uprising by killing those uprising peasants.

We know Edmure is a moron so which would be the easiest outcome for the Freys? Could Edmure be enough of a leader to keep the loyalists in line? Could he become too much of a leader and foment rebellion? Would the people accept him even though he had nothing to do with the events after the wedding or will the Freys/Boltons/Lannisters spread tales that Edmure was involved in order to keep him from fomenting the aformentioned rebellion?

I think it boils down to what does Walder think is in his best interest. What that is, I have no idea but I love speculating on it ;)

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Doesn't matter, had sex

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Theon votes down on this post.

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:lol:

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I honestly don't remember so I am speaking on a level of a non-reader here.

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You don't know what the show is going to do and I like your line of thinking, but I don't agree with this.

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On the other side is that if they killed Edmure then Walder would be the logical choice for gaining those lands

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If you kill him I believe by birth rites BlackFish Tully would become Lord of Riverrun. If I'm Walder Frey the last thing I want is the Lord of Riverrun asking his niece to call her bannerman to avenge her sister's death and keep her family house intact. Keep the fool alive.

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Thanks for the props in the nonreader thread, but I won't post in there in response.

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No problem.

I did cave and Joxy myself in the reader thread. CE thinks I'm a reader because I "know" there's a zombie Crow army. It was in episode 1 or 2, when Jeor makes the graveyard humor statement "always the artists." They talked about how many men must have been killed, and that only the horse remains were left.

So much for readers chiding us for not paying attention.