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re: Game of Thrones S7 E7 "The Dragon and the Wolf" MAESTERS THREAD NO SPOILERS
Posted on 8/29/17 at 8:27 am to Methuselah
Posted on 8/29/17 at 8:27 am to Methuselah
quote:
In reality I think GRRM was maybe just trying to muddy the waters and combining that with the whole fAegon storyline in a doomed attempt to stop people from guessing that Jon was the guy all along.
Bingo!
And fAegon is the mummer's dragon, which only pisses me off. So much wasted time focusing all his bullshite storyline, the Meerenese knot, etc. I appreciate what GRRM has done in creating a fricking great setting with fantastic and complex characters, but he has really faltered in not being able to finish telling his story.
Props to D&D for taking on this undertaking and giving us some incredible entertainment. They get a lot of shite but really have done a remarkable job.
2
Posted on 8/29/17 at 8:29 am to Gugich22
Can someone explain the whole fAegon thing to me please. I don't feel like googling it.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 9:41 am to MontyFranklyn
Did anyone else notice that the show gave us a perfect representation of the Hodors vs Maesters threads?
Posted on 8/29/17 at 9:43 am to Green Chili Tiger
That's more like maesters vs leakers
Posted on 8/29/17 at 10:32 am to MontyFranklyn
quote:
Can someone explain the whole fAegon thing to me please. I don't feel like googling it.
I'll try. Hopefully others can add to and correct this:
fAegon is a fan name for a character who claims to be Aegon, one of Rhaegar's children by his first wife, Elia of Dorne. The Mountain and Amory Lorch killed them and the Mountain raped Elia with their brains and blood still all over him. But some people (like Varys and Jon Connington) say that Aegon was swapped with a peasant baby when it became obvious the capital was going to fall and that it was the peasant who was killed.
Then someone (I don't remember who) smuggled the baby Aegon out of King's Landing and he was raised by Jon Connington in Essos. Connington (a close friend of Rhaegar and who it is kinda implied had an attraction to him) took the name Griff and used the name Young Griff for Aegon).
Connington and others, including a "Septa" who while getting a bit older was still hot enough to get Tyrion excited when she skinny dipped, raised Young Griff/Aegon to be a "good" leader - teaching him things like survival skills, chivalry, religion, education and exposing him to the lives of common folk.
The whole thing is possibly a plot by Varys and Illyrio (who it is believed married Varys' sister). Some believe that Varys is a Blackfyre and it is all a plot to finally put a Blackfyre on the throne.
As of the end of the book, Connington and Aegon/fAegon have landed in Westeros with the aid of a sell sword company (I think it is the Golden Company) and have had some success establishing a foothold.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 10:47 am to Cow Drogo
quote:
Even as Ned's supposed bastard, it was known that he was born in the south and he was still called Snow instead of Sand.
It doesn't make sense to think that he would suddenly be John sand if he's born in the south because rhaegar is his father.
If anything, he would be Jon Rivers, isn't rivers the last name of targarian bastards?
I think it has more to do with where they are raised or where their noble parent is from and if that parent "claims" them. But, in any case, it's probably not a firm rule or anything.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 10:56 am to Methuselah
That's the gist of it. While Varys hasn't really done shite since like Season 2 in the show, he's been a very busy man in the books manipulating all sides to go after each others throats. Like in the books Varys tells Tyrion how to get to his father's room before he murders him and Shae. He's also been leaving bread crumbs around for Cersei that indicate that the Tyrells helped Tyrion escape and that he may be closer than she thinks. The FAegon story drastically changes Varys character and motives.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:04 am to Sasquatch Smash
I don't think it was known where Jon was born tho, think all that was said was that Ned came back from the war with a bastard, could've easily been a northern women that Ned claimed to be the mother
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:11 am to Gugich22
Completely agree with you. GRRM got carried away with the story without trying to tie up loose ends and has just continued to add more and more worthless characters.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:12 am to wildtigercat93
It's pretty well known that Jon was born south of King's Landing, with Catelyn and Cersei both thinking Jon is Ashara Dayne's son.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:14 am to OMLandshark
Book Varys is fricking awesome
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:15 am to ladytiger118
quote:
Completely agree with you. GRRM got carried away with the story without trying to tie up loose ends and has just continued to add more and more worthless characters.
His biggest mistake was how early he introduced Dany. Dany is the wildcard that is the key to resolving the main conflict. Problem is her strengths also accelerate her story far too quickly to keep pace with the rest of the story. GRRM has gotten stuck multiple times with her story line to slow her down before she is on pace with the rest of the show, it's why she's so boring of a character for most of the show and books.
As soon as she gets ready to do what she's supposed to do, he has to knock her down 100 pegs in order to get every other storyline in line.
That's what got us the mereen plot and what got us FAegon
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:16 am to OMLandshark
quote:
It's pretty well known that Jon was born south of King's Landing, with Catelyn and Cersei both thinking Jon is Ashara Dayne's son.
Ahh I was mistaken.
If Catelyn wasn't such a bitch, Jon would've been named a stark a long time ago
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:25 am to OMLandshark
I think the show is setting up for Varys to somehow betray Dany though. Mel hinted that they'd both die in Westeros, and Dany said something about if he betrayed her that she'd have him roasted. I could somehow see him getting in on the GC in the show but for different reasons since Faegon isn't in the show.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:26 am to CBandits82
quote:
Book Varys is fricking awesome
It's why I like the FAegon concept but completely understand why they had to remove it from the show.
GRRM just went out of control in the last 2 books. He has introduced 4 Dorne POV characters and 3 POV Iron Island characters. Does anyone give a shite about Areo Hotah, Quentyn Martell, and Aeron Greyjoy? He really needed to simplify it, only add Cersei, Barristan, Brienne, Connington, Asha, and Arienne as POV characters, and keep it simple like the first 3 books
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:27 am to ladytiger118
Agreed, but who will he defect to? Jon is an ally of Dany's and Cersei is batshit crazy who would have his head.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:45 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Save for George Foreman, name one
There were two half brothers on the South Carolina football team (I think both on the DL) a couple of years ago with the same name and the same dad. Gerald Dixon if I remember correctly, only one of them was a Jr
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:50 am to OMLandshark
He may not defect per se. When he finds out who Jon is, he may try to influence things to put Jon on the thrown, even if Jon doesn't want it and is loyal to Danny.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 12:00 pm to ALLin4LSU
Does it really matter what Jon's Targaryen name actually is? I mean holy frick y'all are bitching just to bitch.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 12:54 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
I don't think it was known where Jon was born tho, think all that was said was that Ned came back from the war with a bastard, could've easily been a northern women that Ned claimed to be the mother
Agree and disagree. Ned hated the lying, but did it to keep a promise (so his honor was intact). He was very vague and mum about the identity of Jon's "mother" - I think he either implied or let other folks assume that it was a gal named Willa - who was also Edric Storm's (one of Robert's acknowledged bastars) wet nurse, making him and Edric Storm milk brothers.
But, I don't think he ever suggested details such as where Jon was born or other circumstances, either in the books or the show.
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