re: Game of Thrones S5 OFF-SEASON THREAD, NO SPOILERS/BOOKREADERS!

The Jon being a Baratheon theory doesn't make sense to me. Why would Ned hide Robert's son from him? Especially if it was his and Lyanna's baby? Robert loved Lyanna even more than Ned and Ned wouldn't keep Jon from him in this hypothetical.

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Stonehog, it does not appear that anyone on here wants to side with you. I insert myself - not to support your particular point about the wall (which I understand) - but to agree that plot holes pop up everywhere. I, for one, don't understand why so many characters are so preoccupied with being king of King's Landing when it has appeared that the Iron Bank is actually the most powerful entity there is. No, that's a mistake on my part, for whenever the author creates a character or force that it unbeatable or supreme, he simply creates another being or force that's even more powerful, and so on. There's never a world's strongest person because someone even stronger will come along in a future episode.

But, the fact that I am participating in this thread ought to prove that I thoroughly enjoy this series and expect to be disappointed when it ends. The author is vastly more talented than I am. I like how he takes the adage "No good deed goes unpunished" and applies that in Dani's storyline. I kinda like how he has killed off some of the "favorite" characters because it keeps us on our toes.

Not being a book reader, I really am in no position to say that all of the observations that I've made herein aren't completely stupid, too. There are many precedents for how adaptions of books do not do justice to the source books.

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I never said it was Cersei's child. You came up with that.

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Someone else said that then. Anyway, it doesn't make sense that Jon would be Robert's child. He wouldn't have to be hidden if that was the case.

I just don't know where this Jon Snow theory comes from if someone just watches the show.

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Here's the theory - "someone" spirited the baby away and told everyone it had died. The source is this scene from early in Season 1:

"[Catelyn sits. Cersei approaches Bran's bed]

Cersei Lannister: Handsome one, isn't he? I lost my first boy.

[surprised, Catelyn stares at Cersei]

Cersei Lannister: A little black-haired beauty. He was a fighter too... tried to beat the fever that took him. Forgive me. It's the last thing you need to hear right now.

Catelyn Stark: [shakes her head] I never knew.

Cersei Lannister: It was years ago. Robert was crazed, beat his hands bloody on the wall, all the things men do to show you how much they care. The boy looked just like him. Such a little thing... a bird without feathers. They came to take his body away and Robert held me. I screamed and I battled, but he held me.

[Cersei's eyes are filled with tears]

Cersei Lannister: That little bundle. They took him away and I never saw him again. Never have visited the crypt, never.

[long moment of silence]

Cersei Lannister: I pray to the mother every morning and night that she return your child to you.

Catelyn Stark: [nods] I am grateful.

Cersei Lannister: Perhaps this time she'll listen."

(ETA: And, full disclosure, I do not subscribe to this theory.)

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In that whole conversation, she's telling Cat how she lost her boy, how Robert was so upset (he wouldn't be if the kid hadn't died), how they took "the body" away, etc.

Outside of some crackpot theory (or other knowledge), putting something together that Jon Snow was related to Robert/Cersei is highly improbable.

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what was Gendry's helmet/mask a Lion?

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A bull

OMG who the frick cares who is Jons mom.

Jon had to have some Stark blood in him, he looked just like Ned, that was part of the reason Catelyn hated him so much. I remember at one point she told someone that Jon looked more like Ned then her children did. I don't think Jon is Ned's son, but definitely think he has some Stark heritage.