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Frodo at the end of ROTK
Posted on 2/26/17 at 7:36 pm
Posted on 2/26/17 at 7:36 pm
I know he goes somewhere most mortals aren't allowed. Does he become immortal now? Where exactly is he going?
Posted on 2/26/17 at 7:41 pm to nosaj
The land of the Valar, right?
But that place was only for elves to live forever. I don't think it was off limits to mortals, but just going there didn't make one immortal.
But that place was only for elves to live forever. I don't think it was off limits to mortals, but just going there didn't make one immortal.
This post was edited on 2/26/17 at 7:41 pm
Posted on 2/26/17 at 8:04 pm to nosaj
He was going to Valinor, the land of the Valar, and then further from there to the place where elves go when they die (I can't remember the exact name, it's been a while since I read the Silmarillion), where he can spend eternity recovering from the burden of bearing the One Ring. Men and Elves go different places after death in Tolkien's mythology. Knowing this adds another layer of depth to the story of Arwen, Aragorn, and Elrond. As half-elves, Elrond and his children could choose to live as elves or as men, with all of the consequences of that choice. Elrond chose to live as an elf, obviously, and expected Arwen to do the same. But when she fell in love with Aragorn, she made the choice to live as a human. This meant that she would be separated from Elrond both in life and in death, which is why Elrond hated Aragorn so much and was so loath to help him in any way.
If you enjoy LOTR and haven't read the Silmarillion, you need to do so. Don't expect it to be a single epic story like LOTR, because it isn't. It's something totally unique. Take it for what it is, let it create an entire world in which LOTR not only takes place but makes sense given the events that led up to it, and you will learn to appreciate it as the greatest of Tolkien's works.
If you enjoy LOTR and haven't read the Silmarillion, you need to do so. Don't expect it to be a single epic story like LOTR, because it isn't. It's something totally unique. Take it for what it is, let it create an entire world in which LOTR not only takes place but makes sense given the events that led up to it, and you will learn to appreciate it as the greatest of Tolkien's works.
Posted on 2/26/17 at 8:46 pm to TheTideMustRoll
Wait... so let me get this straight, Elrond is half-elf?
Posted on 2/26/17 at 8:48 pm to Peter Venkman
Another question regarding ROTK, since I don't feel like starting a whole other thread about it:
The tower where frodo is taken by orcs after shelob is defeated, cirith ungol.... there are two types of orcs there. The normal runt ones that sauron deploys, and it looks like uruk hai from isengard are there as well. Are the uruk-hai at cirith ungol the remnants of the siege army that fled helms deep?
The tower where frodo is taken by orcs after shelob is defeated, cirith ungol.... there are two types of orcs there. The normal runt ones that sauron deploys, and it looks like uruk hai from isengard are there as well. Are the uruk-hai at cirith ungol the remnants of the siege army that fled helms deep?
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:14 pm to nosaj
quote:
Where exactly is he going?
I just figured he was goin' fishin' with the elves on that boat ... maybe go catch some yellowfin out by a rig or something.
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:36 pm to Peter Venkman
quote:
Wait... so let me get this straight, Elrond is half-elf?
Elrond, along with his brother Elros, were born half elf/man because their father was mortal and mother was an elf. Elrond chose to become a full Elf and became lord of Rivendale, while Elros chose to become a mortal man and the first king of the Numenoreans......
Cool thing is most mortals are all descendants of the Numenorians, i.e. The Dunedain, Gondorians, Corsairs of Umbar, etc...
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:37 pm to nosaj
In the books, at least, just going to the land of the Valar (Valinor) doesn't make the hobbits immortal. They'll grow old (or older, in Bilbo's case) and die just as they would in the Middle-earth. Though with decidedly less chance of dying of unnatural causes, obviously. Since hobbits are long-lived, though, they'll have quite a few good years there.
All the races apparently have their own afterlives, though it's unclear where the hobbits and the dwarves go, since both were created outside of Eru's original plan. The creation of the dwarves was actually something of a rebellious act by Aule, so it's not a given that he can provide an afterlife for them. Even more poignantly, since elves and humans go to separate afterlives, the elves that chose to become mortal for the love of a human will go to a different place than their human counterpart, which equals eternal separation in the afterlife.
Did I just out myself as a nerd, or were some of y'all beginning to suspect this might be the case after seeing that big 'V' next to my name? Dammit, I was being so careful....
All the races apparently have their own afterlives, though it's unclear where the hobbits and the dwarves go, since both were created outside of Eru's original plan. The creation of the dwarves was actually something of a rebellious act by Aule, so it's not a given that he can provide an afterlife for them. Even more poignantly, since elves and humans go to separate afterlives, the elves that chose to become mortal for the love of a human will go to a different place than their human counterpart, which equals eternal separation in the afterlife.
Did I just out myself as a nerd, or were some of y'all beginning to suspect this might be the case after seeing that big 'V' next to my name? Dammit, I was being so careful....
This post was edited on 2/26/17 at 9:38 pm
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:41 pm to nosaj
quote:
Frodo at the end of ROTK
This is a little off-topic but Sam should have shoved Frodo into the lava, when he hesitated. You don't go through all that hell just to change your mind at the end. I don't care of the ring had screwed his mind up or not, I'm pushing him in.
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:48 pm to Cobrasize
quote:
This is a little off-topic but Sam should have shoved Frodo into the lava, when he hesitated. You don't go through all that hell just to change your mind at the end. I don't care of the ring had screwed his mind up or not, I'm pushing him in.
You try shoving your "confirmed bachelor companion" into a pit of lava and then come tell us how easy it is.
Actually, since Frodo slipped on the ring, it required someone with Gollum's heightened senses to accurately find Frodo.
Posted on 2/26/17 at 10:05 pm to randomways
quote:
You try shoving your "confirmed bachelor companion" into a pit of lava and then come tell us how easy it is.
Basically the end of the world or push Frodo. Not to mention, Sam had to be tired of putting up with Frodo's shite. It wouldn't have been a terribly difficult decision for me.
Posted on 2/26/17 at 10:11 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
two types of orcs
First off, these "runts" are goblins not orcs. Completely different race, bro. Second, not all orcs were the Uruk-hai of Saruman's army. That was a recent creation. Orcs themselves go back much farther than that, and Sauron had plenty in his own service as well.
Not all men are descended from Numenor in some shape or form. In fact, most aren't. Easterlings, Men of Rhûn, Southerlings who weren't Umbar royalty, and most commoners in the kingdoms former and current of Arnor and Gondor were of thin blood and thus lived short lives.
The spirits of the dead went to the Halls of Mandos. All spirits. Regardless of race. Now, if there was separation in the Halls I forget.
Posted on 2/26/17 at 11:17 pm to Decisions
quote:
First off, these "runts" are goblins not orcs.
While the books may be different this wasn't that clear in the movies. After all, in the first film there are goblins in Moria and they look nothing like the runts at the end of ROTK.
I just always assumed they were two types of orcs. Like different ethnic groups or something.
Posted on 2/26/17 at 11:48 pm to theGarnetWay
quote:
I just always assumed they were two types of orcs. Like different ethnic groups or something.
There are, or at least it's heavily implied. Since Tolkien didn't really get into the technicalities, I'm not sure how they'd be classified, but "ethnic groups" works well enough for me. Or "tribes." The fight in the tower was between two different groups. And it's been a while since I saw the movie, but the final trek to Mt. Doom involved Sam and Frodo masquerading as a smaller 'tracker' forms of orc while traveling with larger 'soldier' forms of orc.
And, yes, the 'goblins' were also variants of the orc family. They primarily resided in the Misty Mountains and Moria. They're not a completely separate species any more than the Uruk-hai of Saruman were a completely separate species from the Uruks of Mordor. Decisions seems to be excessively upset about this issue, given that s/he is mistaken, at least in terms of Tolkien's own mythology. Perhaps s/he is extrapolating something from the LotR and Hobbit movies?
Posted on 2/27/17 at 1:30 am to TheTideMustRoll
quote:
He was going to Valinor, the land of the Valar,
IIRC, this was also the home of Valarian steel.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 1:36 am to nosaj
quote:
Where exactly is he going?
He's getting promoted to oompa loompa
Posted on 2/27/17 at 7:28 am to randomways
quote:
Perhaps s/he is extrapolating something from the LotR and Hobbit movies?
Not upset at all. And I've read the Silmarillion in depth, so why extrapolate from the movies? They are a flawed medium.
It's been said that orcs come from a corruption of elves by Melkor in the earliest of days. After a bit of research, I will admit my mistake on the place of goblins and "tracker" orcs, though. For some reason I was thinking of orcs and goblins as separate corruptions of elves and men, and thus similarly separate. This does not seem to be the case, though. My sincerest apologies.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 7:56 am to nosaj
Having just read LOTR for the first time, I love this thread.
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