- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Do you think Michael Corleone blamed Tom Hagen for Sonny's death?
Posted on 11/12/16 at 5:39 pm
Posted on 11/12/16 at 5:39 pm
At least to a degree? Michael (along with Vito) made the decision to remove Tom as Consigliere because he wasn't a "wartime" Consigliere.
"You're Out Tom". Michael's tone spoke volumes.
I believe Michael felt like Tom should have prevented Sonny at all costs from leaving the compound on his own. Did anyone know it was a setup? No, but it was Tom's job to not even allow his hot-headed brother/boss put himself out there like that.
"You're Out Tom". Michael's tone spoke volumes.
I believe Michael felt like Tom should have prevented Sonny at all costs from leaving the compound on his own. Did anyone know it was a setup? No, but it was Tom's job to not even allow his hot-headed brother/boss put himself out there like that.
8
Posted on 11/12/16 at 5:54 pm to Tarik One
Tom was only out publicly. Michael then named Carlo so he could set him up to die. Michael knew Carlo set up Sonny. He still confided in Tom.
Posted on 11/12/16 at 6:34 pm to BlacknGold
the level of disrespect that michael continued to show Tom was appalling, and it was likely bc he wasn't blood family.
Tom showed extreme loyalty to vito, sonny and everything corleone and he, in turn, was treated like a stepchild by his stepbrother
Tom showed extreme loyalty to vito, sonny and everything corleone and he, in turn, was treated like a stepchild by his stepbrother
Posted on 11/12/16 at 6:54 pm to The Egg
Tom even told Mike he always wanted to be thought of as a brother by him, a real brother.
Posted on 11/13/16 at 5:04 am to Tarik One
Sonny sucked. No way Tom, or anyone else was going to stop him from leaving. Michael didn't blame shite on Tom in the first movie. Part II could be a different story with the "miscarriage "
Posted on 11/13/16 at 7:01 am to upgrade
Whoever let vito go anywhere alone with fredo should be held in contempt. Tom was terrible. Literally did not see any angle played and got people killed. This was the event that pulled Michael in. This is why he hates Tom.
This post was edited on 11/13/16 at 7:15 am
Posted on 11/13/16 at 8:11 am to Tarik One
No, he blamed Carlo. He always blamed Carlo.
Posted on 11/13/16 at 8:12 am to Tarik One
Michael didn't have a problem killing family members. If he blamed Tom, he would've had him killed too.
Posted on 11/13/16 at 8:29 am to Bestbank Tiger
They created the Carlo threat by keeping him out of the business. By freezing him out, they pretty much ensured Carlo would betray the family. Another angle Tom completely missed.
Posted on 11/13/16 at 8:33 am to Rou Leed
Damn man, why do you hate Tom? He did his best and was completely loyal to the family.
Posted on 11/13/16 at 8:34 am to Rou Leed
Tom was in the slot designed for Michael. Tom would not have existed if Michael hadnt rebelled. Tom represented Michaels contentious objection to family business early in his life and Michael hated him out of guilt. Tom is Michaels self loathing and resentment of family business.
This post was edited on 11/13/16 at 8:36 am
Posted on 11/13/16 at 10:04 am to Tarik One
Then why did he push Tom's son for a position in the Church in III?
Posted on 11/13/16 at 10:48 am to prplhze2000
Sonny was the brother who bought Tom as an orphan into the family. Michael grew up with him as his younger brother, but Sonny was always the alpha.
Michael -Everyone (even the Don) - knew about Santino's temper and that Tom is not Sicilian. Shorthand for not sneaky enough to see and anticipate assassination.
So, Michael cannot fault Tom for not being something he could not be. That being said, I would think Michael would hate the other five families, and Carlo,a hell of a lot more than blaming Tom.
Michael -Everyone (even the Don) - knew about Santino's temper and that Tom is not Sicilian. Shorthand for not sneaky enough to see and anticipate assassination.
So, Michael cannot fault Tom for not being something he could not be. That being said, I would think Michael would hate the other five families, and Carlo,a hell of a lot more than blaming Tom.
Posted on 11/13/16 at 11:26 am to Rou Leed
quote:
By freezing him out, they pretty much ensured Carlo would betray the family. Another angle Tom completely missed.
Tom didn't miss it at all. In fact, at the wedding, he even brought it up to Don Vito. He told him that he'll need a job that was important.
Posted on 11/13/16 at 11:33 am to prplhze2000
quote:
Then why did he push Tom's son for a position in the Church in III?
To get him molested
Posted on 11/13/16 at 12:31 pm to SEClint
Part 3 doesn't count
Posted on 11/13/16 at 12:35 pm to Tarik One
One of the GF themes/ironies is "blood/family" Carlo, Tessio, Clemenza/Pentangeli, and even Fredo betray the family, but Kraut Mick Tom Hagen remains loyal.
Sonny: "Your country ain't your blood"
Michael: "That's Pop talking"
Sonny, like Vito, takes the old European view that family is paramount. Michael however runs the family like a bloodless modern American corporation. This leaves him successful but ultimately alone.
Sonny: "Your country ain't your blood"
Michael: "That's Pop talking"
Sonny, like Vito, takes the old European view that family is paramount. Michael however runs the family like a bloodless modern American corporation. This leaves him successful but ultimately alone.
Posted on 11/13/16 at 12:47 pm to Tarik One
Michael Corleone seemed to make strange decisions at times. Telling Tom he was "out" seemed like one of them. Tom seemed just as much of a manipulative mastermind as Michael throughout the movies. Without the vengeful violence that went with it. All the violence or threat of violence Tom set forth had a purpose besides pure hatred or revenge. Michael not always.
This post was edited on 11/13/16 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 11/13/16 at 2:25 pm to The Egg
quote:
the level of disrespect that michael continued to show Tom was appalling, and it was likely bc he wasn't blood family.
"Not a Sicilian, but a good man."
Posted on 11/13/16 at 2:31 pm to LuckyTiger
quote:"He's a good lawyer. Not a Sicilian, but -- I think he's gonna be consiglieri."
"Not a Sicilian, but a good man."
Page 1 of 2
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News