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Started By
Message
re: Black Mirror S5 - In Game Thread (SPOILERS)
Posted on 6/10/19 at 11:46 am to Tigerfan56
Posted on 6/10/19 at 11:46 am to Tigerfan56
quote:
To me, it was more so a realistic lesson on the consequences of VR and sex. VR is going to get more and more advanced, and so to the sexual stimulation you can get from it. It’s like porn on cocaine, and it can absolutely wreck a marriage because you have avenues for more exciting sexual experiences that aren’t “really” cheating, all the while you are neglecting your SO.
But that wasn't the point. As Karl said, he was fricking multitudes of other people in the game, but it wasn't the same as it was with Danny. Danny wasn't going on there just banging randoms for the sake of it, it was all based on his relationship with Karl.
It's still unclear exactly what the message was. Was it that they were gay? No. Was it that VR sex in and of itself is addicting? No. It seemed like some muddied message about friendship and abandoning it for another relationship/phase of life, maybe?
0
Posted on 6/10/19 at 11:47 am to Tigerfan56
quote:
I actually think that’s why they didn’t make them gay. If they made them gay, it’s just a story of a man having an affair. This story shows us a new technology and basically a new phenomenon - a new kind of affair.
If you make them gay it’s jsut two suppressed homosexuals, which is story that has been done a million times and black mirror has done.
quote:
To me, it was more so a realistic lesson on the consequences of VR and sex. VR is going to get more and more advanced, and so to the sexual stimulation you can get from it. It’s like porn on cocaine, and it can absolutely wreck a marriage because you have avenues for more exciting sexual experiences that aren’t “really” cheating, all the while you are neglecting your SO.
You get it.
quote:
But that wasn't the point. As Karl said, he was fricking multitudes of other people in the game, but it wasn't the same as it was with Danny. Danny wasn't going on there just banging randoms for the sake of it, it was all based on his relationship with Karl.
Karl definitely was addicted to it.
This post was edited on 6/10/19 at 11:48 am
Posted on 6/10/19 at 12:09 pm to Dire Wolf
I liked Striking Vipers although it was kind of disturbing. If they do immersive VR where players feel pain or pleasure, online orgies would pop up in a New York minute and society would grind to a halt.
Smithereens was good. I liked the conversation at the end with Andrew Scott and Topher Grace. Andrew Scott is a damn good actor. He was excellent in Sherlock and Fleabag.
The Miley Cyrus one was kind of disappointing. The trailers made it look like the little Alexa type-device would start to go haywire because Ashley had mental health issues caused by being a giant pop star. I thought that was an interesting idea. But it turned into a bad sitcom at the end. And Miley Cyrus isn't enough of an actress to carry a big role.
Smithereens was good. I liked the conversation at the end with Andrew Scott and Topher Grace. Andrew Scott is a damn good actor. He was excellent in Sherlock and Fleabag.
The Miley Cyrus one was kind of disappointing. The trailers made it look like the little Alexa type-device would start to go haywire because Ashley had mental health issues caused by being a giant pop star. I thought that was an interesting idea. But it turned into a bad sitcom at the end. And Miley Cyrus isn't enough of an actress to carry a big role.
Posted on 6/10/19 at 12:58 pm to Tigerfan56
I've only watched the first episode (Striking Vipers X) but I enjoyed it. Very thought provoking, and being a VR gamer myself it hit home.
I know the season is getting smashed in reviews (and this thread as well obviously). It has to fly way off the rails in the final two episodes, or I think we are reaching the supersaturated critic culture of social media.
Avengers End Game wasn't really that good and got praised. It was more of the same, safe, Marvel formula.
Black Mirror, a truly original and great series, is getting slammed for a subpar season. GOT got murdered for running out of source material and rushed. Xmen; Dark Phoenix was not as bad as it's getting shite on. etc.
I will reserve judgment on BM S5 till I finish the last two episodes, but I liked Bandersnatch, and I enjoyed Striking Vipers. Were they among the best Black Mirror episodes? No. But they were still better than most garbage coming out of television.
Ill report back after finishing it though, according to all critics, and this thread, it really takes a nosedive (no pun intended)
I know the season is getting smashed in reviews (and this thread as well obviously). It has to fly way off the rails in the final two episodes, or I think we are reaching the supersaturated critic culture of social media.
Avengers End Game wasn't really that good and got praised. It was more of the same, safe, Marvel formula.
Black Mirror, a truly original and great series, is getting slammed for a subpar season. GOT got murdered for running out of source material and rushed. Xmen; Dark Phoenix was not as bad as it's getting shite on. etc.
I will reserve judgment on BM S5 till I finish the last two episodes, but I liked Bandersnatch, and I enjoyed Striking Vipers. Were they among the best Black Mirror episodes? No. But they were still better than most garbage coming out of television.
Ill report back after finishing it though, according to all critics, and this thread, it really takes a nosedive (no pun intended)
Posted on 6/10/19 at 1:02 pm to musick
So - could you frick your buddy in a smoking hot chick's body? I had this conversation with the wife last night. I don't think I could get past it 
Posted on 6/10/19 at 2:01 pm to JBeam
quote:
Sidenote, the actress that played Roxette is kinda hot.
She’s Mantis from the MCU
Posted on 6/10/19 at 3:08 pm to Jor Jor The Dinosaur
Man, reading this thread and thre reviews online, I feel like I'm on an island here... I really liked it. Some thoughts on each episode:
VIPERS
OK, it does suffer from the fact its a not as good version of San Junipero, which is one of the best episodes of any TV show ever, so that's a bit of an unfair standard. What I liked about this episode is that the central conflict is solved AND created by communication.
The problem is that straight men do not have a toolkit in our daily lives to communicate platonic love towards each other. It's illustrated before they ever plug into the game, and how they don't know how to find out the details of each other's lives, even though they do care about one another. They lack the ability to communicate their love for one another until the game comes along, and then we have the problem of him not communicating with his partner, keeping it a secret, and then cutting off the game without speaking about it.
This conflict is solved by simply talking about it and coming with a workaround. Everyone can voice what they desire or aren't getting, and they make a solution together. I liked that. Talk to people. be honest.
As for the gay issue... they aren't gay. Their real life encounter shows that they don't have physical attraction to one another (though there might be a repressed flicker in one of their eyes, though I don't think that's important). People misrepresent themselves online ALL THE TIME and try and be someone different. It's only when one of them inhabits a female body that his platonic love can blossom to physical attraction. It's not real, but there is the basis of you underneath, so in a way, it is. But arguing they are gay is like someone who plays a female character in a video game is trans.
SMITHEREENS
Man, I loved this one because it destroys one of the basic arguments against the show that it is "what if cell phones, but more"? And people claim that Booker is some sort of Luddite arguing against technology. But pointing out problems with technology does not mean you hate tech or want it thrown out.
Here, he rails against the addictive nature of apps, and how they are designed to dominate your attention, but in the end... he admits his own culpability. He killed his wife, not the app. He was responsible and he simply needed someone to confess to, he doesn't even want Topher to redesign the app. He doesn't care about the app. He cares about himself and his own failings... and also fake human interaction. He's most angry when people are fake and don't speak like their true selves.
The final montage truly reveals this: tons of people using the app... and the interacting with each other. OK, one person delays at a stop sign, but you see people check their phones and then play basketball as well. It's not technology, it is how we incorporate it into our lives. Booker's issues are about people not tech.
ASHLEY TOO
It's a departure episode, and one of Black Mirror's funnier entries. It's a direct satire of Disney movies, and the episode is structured like a Hannah Montana episode, right down to the ridiculous plan to outsmart the bad guys through the cunning use of disaguises and the absent minded parental figures. Improbabilities keep adding adding up, and then we get our happy ending wrapped up in a neat bow.
Now, there's also a critique of "empowerment" and how we use up celebrities, too. It's not a real relationship, but its one of the more important one teenagers have. Also, a nice bit of subtle shade making the pop song a NIN song. There's no real difference between the "edgy" alternative stuff and the "empty" pop. It's the same stuff that's being sold to you, just packaged in the opposite way.
VIPERS
OK, it does suffer from the fact its a not as good version of San Junipero, which is one of the best episodes of any TV show ever, so that's a bit of an unfair standard. What I liked about this episode is that the central conflict is solved AND created by communication.
The problem is that straight men do not have a toolkit in our daily lives to communicate platonic love towards each other. It's illustrated before they ever plug into the game, and how they don't know how to find out the details of each other's lives, even though they do care about one another. They lack the ability to communicate their love for one another until the game comes along, and then we have the problem of him not communicating with his partner, keeping it a secret, and then cutting off the game without speaking about it.
This conflict is solved by simply talking about it and coming with a workaround. Everyone can voice what they desire or aren't getting, and they make a solution together. I liked that. Talk to people. be honest.
As for the gay issue... they aren't gay. Their real life encounter shows that they don't have physical attraction to one another (though there might be a repressed flicker in one of their eyes, though I don't think that's important). People misrepresent themselves online ALL THE TIME and try and be someone different. It's only when one of them inhabits a female body that his platonic love can blossom to physical attraction. It's not real, but there is the basis of you underneath, so in a way, it is. But arguing they are gay is like someone who plays a female character in a video game is trans.
SMITHEREENS
Man, I loved this one because it destroys one of the basic arguments against the show that it is "what if cell phones, but more"? And people claim that Booker is some sort of Luddite arguing against technology. But pointing out problems with technology does not mean you hate tech or want it thrown out.
Here, he rails against the addictive nature of apps, and how they are designed to dominate your attention, but in the end... he admits his own culpability. He killed his wife, not the app. He was responsible and he simply needed someone to confess to, he doesn't even want Topher to redesign the app. He doesn't care about the app. He cares about himself and his own failings... and also fake human interaction. He's most angry when people are fake and don't speak like their true selves.
The final montage truly reveals this: tons of people using the app... and the interacting with each other. OK, one person delays at a stop sign, but you see people check their phones and then play basketball as well. It's not technology, it is how we incorporate it into our lives. Booker's issues are about people not tech.
ASHLEY TOO
It's a departure episode, and one of Black Mirror's funnier entries. It's a direct satire of Disney movies, and the episode is structured like a Hannah Montana episode, right down to the ridiculous plan to outsmart the bad guys through the cunning use of disaguises and the absent minded parental figures. Improbabilities keep adding adding up, and then we get our happy ending wrapped up in a neat bow.
Now, there's also a critique of "empowerment" and how we use up celebrities, too. It's not a real relationship, but its one of the more important one teenagers have. Also, a nice bit of subtle shade making the pop song a NIN song. There's no real difference between the "edgy" alternative stuff and the "empty" pop. It's the same stuff that's being sold to you, just packaged in the opposite way.
Posted on 6/10/19 at 4:18 pm to Baloo
quote:
SMITHEREENS
Man, I loved this one because it destroys one of the basic arguments against the show that it is "what if cell phones, but more"? And people claim that Booker is some sort of Luddite arguing against technology. But pointing out problems with technology does not mean you hate tech or want it thrown out.
Here, he rails against the addictive nature of apps, and how they are designed to dominate your attention, but in the end... he admits his own culpability. He killed his wife, not the app. He was responsible and he simply needed someone to confess to, he doesn't even want Topher to redesign the app. He doesn't care about the app. He cares about himself and his own failings... and also fake human interaction. He's most angry when people are fake and don't speak like their true selves.
The final montage truly reveals this: tons of people using the app... and the interacting with each other. OK, one person delays at a stop sign, but you see people check their phones and then play basketball as well. It's not technology, it is how we incorporate it into our lives. Booker's issues are about people not tech.
I loved this episode. People are calling it mediocre but I thought it was really good. Some of the best acting in the entire BM series.
Posted on 6/10/19 at 4:56 pm to Baloo
Well that Cyrus episode at least showed that she can't sing better than a crack whore.
Seriously, what is up with her voice? They need to auto-tune her just to speak like a girl.
Seriously, what is up with her voice? They need to auto-tune her just to speak like a girl.
Posted on 6/10/19 at 6:11 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Well that Cyrus episode at least showed that she can't sing better than a crack whore.
I'm no Miley fan... but I'm going to have to disagree. Just because Ashley O. was a burn-out with a groggy, crackling morning-voice doesn't mean Cyrus can't sing. Her range isn't incredible - but her voice is strong... at about an octave lower than the majority of popular female artists today.
Youtube - Iso mic feed from "Jolene" live on the Today Show
Posted on 6/10/19 at 11:07 pm to Tigerfan56
quote:
To me, it was more so a realistic lesson on the consequences of VR and sex. VR is going to get more and more advanced, and so to the sexual stimulation you can get from it.
This. Imagine if VR could put yourself inside a character’s body and you could feel what they feel? They explored this same tech in USS Calister. I like how they tied it in here. IMO Striking Vipers felt like a classic BM episode.
I liked Smithereens. Sure, it didn’t feel like a BM episode but I enjoyed the story for what it was. It wasn’t groundbreaking but was good TV.
I haven’t watched the last one yet.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 7:39 am to Baloo
Baloo, I usually agree with everything you say but I couldn't disagree more with your take on Vipers.
IMO, this is wholly 100% false. I think now more than at any time I've been alive this is actually the opposite. I'm reminded of the scene in Grease when danny agrees to drive other dude's car in the race, they excitedly hug for like one second then push each other away and act cool because showing any type of affection for a dude must be gay. I wasn't alive in the 50s but I imagine that that wasn't THAT uncommon back then. Fast forward to today. Our society has invented new phrases like "bromance" and bro hugs. Guys have really close guy friends, do things in a 1 on 1 setting, give hugs, etc all the time. Popular recent movie gave mileage to the phrase "I love you man". In 2019 I just don't think that there is any stigma at all about having a best friend and being close or chummy with them.
I don't necessarily see this as something to do just wiht these 2 protagonists, I see this as something that happens to literally everyone in their life in taht you eventually grow apart from people as you do your own things. When the 2 dudes were younger they were staying up late, hanging out, playing video games, all seemed well with their friendship. When we fast forward to adult-hood (I assume this is what you're referring to specifically) it's apparent they've lost touch but they are clearly at very different points in their lives. One is married and hosting backyard bbqs with other married friends while the other is still a swingin bachelor out on the town most nights. I don't think that "lack of communication" is really some big issue with them, since like I mentioned this is a story as old as time. Now you can say that that in itself is an issue with communication, but I don't think it's specific or mind blowing to this particular case at hand or to Black Mirror.
To be honest I think that would be a pretty normal human reaction if I was in a VR game and another dude tried to frick me.
That sounds nice but what is the outcome exactly? One dude is virtually cheating on his wife with a man. The wife gets to frick a random stranger (IRL!) once a year to provide some kind, ANY kind of spice to their marriage. And the 3rd party likely waits 364 days out of his year simply to have virtual relations with his best friend, but it's not gay because he's pretending to be female. I mean sure everyone seems ot get somethign they desired but does all that seem normal or ok? If communication is the end all be all here how about talking ot a therapist? "Hey doc, I transport myself into a woman's body to get virtually railed by a buff dude being controlled by my best friend" "Hey doc, I virutally turn into a dude and have virtual sxe with a woman that isn't my wife but is being controlled by my best friend" "Hey doc, my marriage is boring and losing passion so I get a hall pass to have an affair once a year on my husband's birthday". I mean all of these issues should be addressed by proessional help.
quote:
The problem is that straight men do not have a toolkit in our daily lives to communicate platonic love towards each other.
IMO, this is wholly 100% false. I think now more than at any time I've been alive this is actually the opposite. I'm reminded of the scene in Grease when danny agrees to drive other dude's car in the race, they excitedly hug for like one second then push each other away and act cool because showing any type of affection for a dude must be gay. I wasn't alive in the 50s but I imagine that that wasn't THAT uncommon back then. Fast forward to today. Our society has invented new phrases like "bromance" and bro hugs. Guys have really close guy friends, do things in a 1 on 1 setting, give hugs, etc all the time. Popular recent movie gave mileage to the phrase "I love you man". In 2019 I just don't think that there is any stigma at all about having a best friend and being close or chummy with them.
quote:
They lack the ability to communicate their love for one another until the game comes along,
I don't necessarily see this as something to do just wiht these 2 protagonists, I see this as something that happens to literally everyone in their life in taht you eventually grow apart from people as you do your own things. When the 2 dudes were younger they were staying up late, hanging out, playing video games, all seemed well with their friendship. When we fast forward to adult-hood (I assume this is what you're referring to specifically) it's apparent they've lost touch but they are clearly at very different points in their lives. One is married and hosting backyard bbqs with other married friends while the other is still a swingin bachelor out on the town most nights. I don't think that "lack of communication" is really some big issue with them, since like I mentioned this is a story as old as time. Now you can say that that in itself is an issue with communication, but I don't think it's specific or mind blowing to this particular case at hand or to Black Mirror.
quote:
we have the problem of him not communicating with his partner, keeping it a secret, and then cutting off the game without speaking about it
To be honest I think that would be a pretty normal human reaction if I was in a VR game and another dude tried to frick me.
quote:
This conflict is solved by simply talking about it and coming with a workaround. Everyone can voice what they desire or aren't getting, and they make a solution together. I liked that. Talk to people. be honest.
That sounds nice but what is the outcome exactly? One dude is virtually cheating on his wife with a man. The wife gets to frick a random stranger (IRL!) once a year to provide some kind, ANY kind of spice to their marriage. And the 3rd party likely waits 364 days out of his year simply to have virtual relations with his best friend, but it's not gay because he's pretending to be female. I mean sure everyone seems ot get somethign they desired but does all that seem normal or ok? If communication is the end all be all here how about talking ot a therapist? "Hey doc, I transport myself into a woman's body to get virtually railed by a buff dude being controlled by my best friend" "Hey doc, I virutally turn into a dude and have virtual sxe with a woman that isn't my wife but is being controlled by my best friend" "Hey doc, my marriage is boring and losing passion so I get a hall pass to have an affair once a year on my husband's birthday". I mean all of these issues should be addressed by proessional help.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 8:11 am to abellsujr
quote:
The Miley Cyrus one was horrible IMO
I enjoyed the credit scene when she turned into rock star Ashley fricking O, and it showed all her old bubble gum pop fans with the horrified looks on their faces.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 9:12 am to WG_Dawg
Maybe it’s more commentary on black culture? It still has a pretty big stigma compared to other races about being gay or appearing to be gay.
Posted on 6/11/19 at 11:35 am to GetCocky11
So far I've only seen Ashley Too, and it was a letdown for the Black Mirror universe.
Black Mirror episodes usually frick me up (White Bear, Shut Up and Dance in particular). I can't watch them back to back, and I think about them for days after I watch. My TV choices are mostly comedy, so I have to be in a certain head space to watch BM. I watched Ashley Too and afterwards just thought "ok, that was fine." Nothing really to think about or analyze. It was just a forgettable episode.
Easily the best part of the whole episode
Black Mirror episodes usually frick me up (White Bear, Shut Up and Dance in particular). I can't watch them back to back, and I think about them for days after I watch. My TV choices are mostly comedy, so I have to be in a certain head space to watch BM. I watched Ashley Too and afterwards just thought "ok, that was fine." Nothing really to think about or analyze. It was just a forgettable episode.
quote:
I enjoyed the credit scene when she turned into rock star Ashley fricking O, and it showed all her old bubble gum pop fans with the horrified looks on their faces.
Easily the best part of the whole episode
Posted on 6/11/19 at 1:02 pm to SUB
quote:
Maybe it’s more commentary on black culture? It still has a pretty big stigma compared to other races about being gay or appearing to be gay.
I really don’t think that the casting was a accident.
Posted on 6/12/19 at 10:03 am to Dire Wolf
I didn't care much about any of the three episodes this season.
Posted on 6/12/19 at 8:21 pm to FalseProphet
By far the worst season. None of it was interesting. No real plot twists and nothing thought provoking. The entire thing was garbage. Hope the rest of the seasons don’t follow this path. Yeah I’m pissed.
Posted on 6/12/19 at 8:24 pm to Mootsman
Really liked Vipers, the second one was very good IMO and the last one sucked. Miley is a horrible actress
Posted on 6/12/19 at 8:29 pm to dallastiger55
What was interesting about the second episode? Guy kidnaps an intern. Holds him hostage in a field. Guy talks to the ceo of the company whining he had killed his fiancé. Episode over. What was the point of all of it.
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