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Anthony Beevor (historian) discusses best war movies
Posted on 5/31/18 at 12:11 pm
Posted on 5/31/18 at 12:11 pm
quote:
I despair at the way American and British movie-makers feel they have every right to play fast and loose with the facts, yet have the arrogance to imply that their version is as good as the truth. Continental film-makers are on the whole far more scrupulous. The German film Downfall, about Hitler’s last days in the bunker, respected historical events and recreated them accurately.
quote:
In my view, the greatest war movie ever made is The 317th Platoon, a French film from 1965 set during the country’s first Indochina war. This was the original “platoon movie”, whose format later directors followed but failed to match in its portrayal of characters and their interaction, to say nothing of the moral choices and the corruption of combat.
LINK
This post was edited on 5/31/18 at 12:12 pm
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Posted on 5/31/18 at 12:18 pm to TejasHorn
quote:
Anthony Beevor
Not a guy who I would want to watch a war movie with.
Posted on 5/31/18 at 12:23 pm to TejasHorn
was just coming here to post this. Have't seen 317th platoon but Battle of Algiers is one of the GOAT.
Posted on 5/31/18 at 12:30 pm to TejasHorn
quote:
The 317th Platoon (French, La 317e Section) is a French motion picture, directed by Pierre Schoendoerffer and released in 1965. It stars Jacques Perrin as Lieutenant Torrens, Bruno Cremer as Adjutant Willsdorf and Pierre Fabre as Sergeant Roudier. The 317th Platoon was based on a book written by Schoendoerffer two years earlier. It is set in 1954, as the First Indochinese War nears its conclusion. The eponymous 317th Platoon, containing four French soldiers and 41 Laotians, finds itself trapped behind enemy lines. Under the command of the idealistic but inexperienced Lieutenant Torrens, and the battle hardened Wehrmacht veteran Sergeant Willsdorf, the men begin a frantic retreat from Dien Bien Phu to northern Laos. Along the way their numbers are eroded by enemy attacks and disease until, as the postscript tells us, “the 317th Platoon was no more”.
The 317th Platoon is notable for its realism and effective portrayal of jungle warfare. The 317th Platoon was shot in the Cambodian jungle at a time of growing tensions in Indochina. Both its director, Pierre Schoendoerffer, and cinematographer, Raoul Coutard, were veterans of the First Indochina War. Schoendoerffer was parachuted into Dien Bien Phu as a war correspondent in 1954. He spent several weeks filming the siege, before being captured by the Viet Minh and held in a prison camp for four months. Shot in black and white, The 317th Platoon uses authentic locations and chaotic battle scenes to recreate the experiences of French soldiers. Many veterans of the Indochinese conflicts have nominated The 317th Platoon as the best depiction of these wars.
Posted on 5/31/18 at 12:40 pm to Jim Rockford
Read the article. When I go to the part about how he thinks Spielberg’s Saving Private Ryan was lazy and it recycled images from jaws because there was blood in the water during dday and because tiger tanks “indeed appear” like a f’ing trex from JP I immediately thought this dude is so far up his own arse he doesn’t realizing he’s re-eating his hash browns from Sunday brunch
Jesus dude it’s a movie jackass
Jesus dude it’s a movie jackass
Posted on 5/31/18 at 1:00 pm to TejasHorn
Winners: Black Hawk Down, The Thin Red Line, Patton, Downfall, Bridge on the River Kwai, Paths of Glory, Saving Private Ryan
Losers: Pearl Harbor, Platoon
Losers: Pearl Harbor, Platoon
Posted on 5/31/18 at 1:25 pm to Muthsera
Most war movies are actually stories told during the setting of a particular war. They're not attempting to faithfully recreate the events of the war, but they're using the war as the setting for the film.
As an IT guy, if I would get upset at every time they used technology incorrectly in a movie I couldn't watch anything. Every time I see a "Hacker" typing for 5 seconds to crack a password, I grown inwardly but move along, nerd-level accuracy not the point of the story.
I get his criticism though, he's not wrong. I can respect his point of view. In my opinion, the best war movies leave you walking away thinking that war is insane, and that we should never go to war again. Movies like Saving Private Ryan, and Full Metal Jacket accomplish those goals and are therefore good war movies, even if they are innacurate.
As an IT guy, if I would get upset at every time they used technology incorrectly in a movie I couldn't watch anything. Every time I see a "Hacker" typing for 5 seconds to crack a password, I grown inwardly but move along, nerd-level accuracy not the point of the story.
I get his criticism though, he's not wrong. I can respect his point of view. In my opinion, the best war movies leave you walking away thinking that war is insane, and that we should never go to war again. Movies like Saving Private Ryan, and Full Metal Jacket accomplish those goals and are therefore good war movies, even if they are innacurate.
Posted on 5/31/18 at 1:32 pm to TejasHorn
quote:
Continental film-makers are on the whole far more scrupulous.
Russia has always been good about this.
Come and See is an amazing film.
Waterloo is amazing and while a collaboration between countries was mostly a Russian film in English.
Posted on 5/31/18 at 1:35 pm to BitBuster
quote:
They're not attempting to faithfully recreate the events of the war, but they're using the war as the setting for the film.
Because that's almost impossible.
I don't trust historians writing 10 years after a war let alone 50-100 years.
"The first casualty of war is the truth."
Posted on 5/31/18 at 1:37 pm to Muthsera
quote:
Platoon
Watched it early this morning and was struck by just how poorly this one has aged.
Posted on 5/31/18 at 2:59 pm to extremetigerfanatic
quote:
because there was blood in the water during dday
I thought that was a great scene. I had never even considered the water would look that way. Made it even more realistic to me.
Posted on 5/31/18 at 3:10 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
History is a pack of lies written by people who weren’t there about things that never happened.
Posted on 5/31/18 at 3:30 pm to Lima Whiskey
It's like ancient battles like Battle of Plataea 479 B.C. or Cannae 216 B.C.
Where historians writing 500 years later said they had 250,000 losses in a few days.
Modern historians say this is absurd with the weapons they had back then, everything was hand to hand combat.
This isn't Civil War marching directly into cannon fire and mowing down entire lines of troops.
And Herodotus says the Persians had 300,000 soldiers in that battle.
That would be a huge chunk of the Persian population.
Herodotus even later says in his writing the Persian Army was kept at 10,000 men.
History is difficult enough to trust but military history is the worst...because it was used by ancient historians and even modern historians as propaganda.
Where historians writing 500 years later said they had 250,000 losses in a few days.
Modern historians say this is absurd with the weapons they had back then, everything was hand to hand combat.
This isn't Civil War marching directly into cannon fire and mowing down entire lines of troops.
And Herodotus says the Persians had 300,000 soldiers in that battle.
That would be a huge chunk of the Persian population.
Herodotus even later says in his writing the Persian Army was kept at 10,000 men.
History is difficult enough to trust but military history is the worst...because it was used by ancient historians and even modern historians as propaganda.
Posted on 5/31/18 at 4:41 pm to TejasHorn
Dude even looks like Sheen...
Posted on 5/31/18 at 6:26 pm to TejasHorn
I usually don't have a problem with the war and battle movies not meticulously being accurate.
For some reason, the one exception for me is Braveheart, or more particularly the battle scenes in that movie (overall I think it is a very good movie). It just seems like such a wasted opportunity to me - those battles were some great examples of battlefield tactics by the opposing forces and they just dumbed it down to two masses of troops charging each other.
For some reason, the one exception for me is Braveheart, or more particularly the battle scenes in that movie (overall I think it is a very good movie). It just seems like such a wasted opportunity to me - those battles were some great examples of battlefield tactics by the opposing forces and they just dumbed it down to two masses of troops charging each other.
Posted on 5/31/18 at 7:01 pm to extremetigerfanatic
quote:
Jesus dude it’s a movie jackass
And that's why so many of us are sick of Hollywood playing loose and quick with the facts, and the reason they can get away with it.
Posted on 5/31/18 at 7:13 pm to TejasHorn
He's a really good historian and writer.
That said, he's wrong in thinking that any movie will be faithful to an event. You can't encapsulate war in a movie. There are too many perspectives, subtleties and things going on.
The best you can strive for is to capture the spirit, and that is pretty well a matter of perspective and opinion.
That said, he's wrong in thinking that any movie will be faithful to an event. You can't encapsulate war in a movie. There are too many perspectives, subtleties and things going on.
The best you can strive for is to capture the spirit, and that is pretty well a matter of perspective and opinion.
Posted on 5/31/18 at 7:28 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
I think you’d be very surprised.
There’s a difference between a real scholr/historian and a writer of popular history.
But as someone who reads a lot of history, they’re able to scientifically confirm a lot of the records. I was reading a battle between the Spanish and British 500 years ago, and both accounts of the story were the same and they were able to go back and show through engineering that certain things matched.
Also, a lot of times, people who write these accounts are pretty shockingly honest and admit to betraying, murdering, enslaving, etc.
There’s a difference between a real scholr/historian and a writer of popular history.
But as someone who reads a lot of history, they’re able to scientifically confirm a lot of the records. I was reading a battle between the Spanish and British 500 years ago, and both accounts of the story were the same and they were able to go back and show through engineering that certain things matched.
Also, a lot of times, people who write these accounts are pretty shockingly honest and admit to betraying, murdering, enslaving, etc.
Posted on 5/31/18 at 7:55 pm to TejasHorn
Let’s go with a few based in reality...
Edit: whoops meant for movie badass thread. But I guess also fits somewhat with war movies.
Edit: whoops meant for movie badass thread. But I guess also fits somewhat with war movies.
This post was edited on 5/31/18 at 7:58 pm
Posted on 5/31/18 at 8:26 pm to Godfather1
I thought Platoon was garbage the first time I saw it. Every hackneyed Vietnam stereotype in one unit.
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