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A little thought on why GOT changed
Posted on 5/17/19 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 5/17/19 at 1:08 pm
I don't think HBO had any idea it would become popular, much less as popular as it did. They hired these two writers who weren't known for anything special. They figured hey, we have this great series of novels to follow so they won't have to work too hard at the scripts, thank you GRRM. Then they applied the standard HBO formula of loading the episodes with nudity and sex. Most of the actors used at first were of the B grade variety.
Then the thing took off, to their surprise, and then they ran past the books. HBO is stuck with D&D, who are exposed as not being up to the task of carrying the show on their own. Sometimes you hit the moon shot without planning to do so and have no clue what to do when you do.
Then the thing took off, to their surprise, and then they ran past the books. HBO is stuck with D&D, who are exposed as not being up to the task of carrying the show on their own. Sometimes you hit the moon shot without planning to do so and have no clue what to do when you do.
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Posted on 5/17/19 at 1:11 pm to prplhze2000
So why did it change exactly?
Bc D&D started writing on their own? Is that your little thought?
Bc D&D started writing on their own? Is that your little thought?
Posted on 5/17/19 at 1:11 pm to prplhze2000
I’m pretty sure adapting the series was D&D’s idea.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 1:17 pm to prplhze2000
It changed because not even GRRM knew how to execute the heel turn properly, and television writers were just using classic television writer tropes to finish up a story that wasn't based on classic television writer tropes. It's not only poorly written, it's a jarring contrast to what happened prior. It wasn't just about having source material, it's about having source material that was fleshed out as well. GRRM re-wrote a ton of ASOIAF before it finally went to the publisher. Why? Because that's the only way to create quality.
You have to let the writing take its course and unfold for a bit and then sometimes throw it all away and start over. GRRM benefited from this. ASOIAF isn't essentially his rough draft.
D&D had no such benefit. They were handed a ton of money to wrap it up as quickly as possible so they could go get started on Star Wars.
You have to let the writing take its course and unfold for a bit and then sometimes throw it all away and start over. GRRM benefited from this. ASOIAF isn't essentially his rough draft.
D&D had no such benefit. They were handed a ton of money to wrap it up as quickly as possible so they could go get started on Star Wars.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 1:19 pm to kciDAtaE
Yeah d and d started writing everything during like season 5. Some people on reddit were saying that’s why you never see Martin really pumping the show anymore, since they basically told him to take a hike.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 1:29 pm to trux83LSU
I want to know how the same writers who came up with Arya's revenge on the Frey's then fricked up the NK and King's Landing. Oh...because they got paid to not care and finish quickly for Star Wars.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 1:34 pm to prplhze2000
quote:
I don't think HBO had any idea it would become popular, much less as popular as it did.
They saw how popular it was by season 4. Its 8 seasons in now.
quote:
HBO is stuck with D&D
No they werent, HBO has the money to buy out contracts, etc.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 1:38 pm to prplhze2000
quote:
I don't think HBO had any idea it would become popular,
Then why would they make the show?
quote:
Then they applied the standard HBO formula of loading the episodes with nudity and sex.
Was already in the books. They've actually decreased the amount as the show separated from the books.
quote:
then they ran past the books. HBO is stuck with D&D, who are exposed as not being up to the task of carrying the show on their own. Sometimes you hit the moon shot without planning to do so and have no clue what to do when you do.
The main reason is this: D&D and Co. and even close to the scale of writers as GRRM. Ive said this quite a bit lately but thats what it boils down too. They assumed GRRM would have the other books released and they would have had it easy. Instead they had to try and compare to GRRM and they never had a shot at comparing. There was a %100 guarantee the show was going to drop in quality because you no longer had some of the greatest novels of all time to base your story off of.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 1:39 pm to Gatorbait2008
quote:This seems like purely a rationalization after the fact. Didn’t they announce that there would be two, shorter seasons soon after the 6th season finished up 3 years ago. They only announced the Star Wars trilogy a little over a year ago.
Oh...because they got paid to not care and finish quickly for Star Wars.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 1:45 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Didn’t they announce that there would be two, shorter seasons soon after the 6th season finished up 3 years ago.
Still doesn't make sense to have 10 episodes a season, a formula that worked well, up until the last 2 seasons..probably knowing it's going to be the most watched TV program, with no competition..and the extra time is needed to tell this story.
All this is about ratings, right? Why short-sheet your own bed?
This post was edited on 5/17/19 at 1:47 pm
Posted on 5/17/19 at 1:48 pm to SEClint
quote:Well the last 2 seasons were essentially the length of 8 episodes from previous seasons.
Still doesn't make sense to have 10 episodes a season, a formula that worked well, up until the last 2 seasons..where it's going to be the most watched TV program..and the extra time is needed to tell this story.
And if there are really only 2 books left, then they spent the equivalent of 26 episodes on the story after the conclusion of season 5 which ends at the same place as book 5.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 1:50 pm to SEClint
I mean There was supposed to be 7 seasons for 7 books
And I get Doing season 7 longer (13 episodes) but why split it up?
GRRM is acting like they should be doing more seasons and these guys are looking at him like “how bought you write fricking book 6”
Like people keep saying GRRM is gonna have this satisfying ending and really nothing about his writing style makes me think he knows how to get it there in 2 books.
And I get Doing season 7 longer (13 episodes) but why split it up?
GRRM is acting like they should be doing more seasons and these guys are looking at him like “how bought you write fricking book 6”
Like people keep saying GRRM is gonna have this satisfying ending and really nothing about his writing style makes me think he knows how to get it there in 2 books.
This post was edited on 5/17/19 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 5/17/19 at 1:58 pm to SammyTiger
Well, frick the books. HBO is an established company that seems capable of story telling.
Things feel rushed. I mean, 13 episodes over 2 seasons, those extra 7 episodes could have contributed greatly. We have her doing what she did after following close to a decade, and we are having to wrap it all up for good in the next episode.
Patience is what helped make this show great, being able to stew on things and develop plot and character was essential. Just feel if we followed the same season formula throughout, the extra 4 episodes this season could have really helped with the night king and that battle, the aftermath, and everything else that has happened since.
Things feel rushed. I mean, 13 episodes over 2 seasons, those extra 7 episodes could have contributed greatly. We have her doing what she did after following close to a decade, and we are having to wrap it all up for good in the next episode.
Patience is what helped make this show great, being able to stew on things and develop plot and character was essential. Just feel if we followed the same season formula throughout, the extra 4 episodes this season could have really helped with the night king and that battle, the aftermath, and everything else that has happened since.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 2:01 pm to prplhze2000
quote:Oh, extremely valid here. For all the talk, I don't know that early episodes of GoT were really that much better than, say, early Vikings episodes. Hate if you want, but seasons 1 and 2 of that were great, with plenty of intrigue and violence.
I don't think HBO had any idea it would become popular, much less as popular as it did. They hired these two writers who weren't known for anything special. They figured hey, we have this great series of novels to follow so they won't have to work too hard at the scripts, thank you GRRM. Then they applied the standard HBO formula of loading the episodes with nudity and sex. Most of the actors used at first were of the B grade variety.
Then the thing took off, to their surprise, and then they ran past the books. HBO is stuck with D&D, who are exposed as not being up to the task of carrying the show on their own. Sometimes you hit the moon shot without planning to do so and have no clue what to do when you do.
But as you noted, we then get the HBO touch, with R-rated sex and nudity. Basically, it was the modern B movie platform, with better funding than they'd get otherwise.
And for whatever reason, maybe that it was NOT a politically correct show, it skyrocketed. And as things grew, the "HBO touch" receded; no more blatant nudity from the leads, no more lack of judgement being read into the scenes, as this became mainstream. And as noted, they had to go somewhere with the story, which Martin neglected to finish.
It would have been like trying to finish a Conan movie trilogy that somehow became 'respectable', and you had to revise Conan to make him cleaner and noble, instead of what he was.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 2:03 pm to SEClint
quote:But they’re actually 16 episodes worth of screen time. I think one of the reasons it feels rushed is because more happens in one episode. These last 4 episodes are actually more like 6 episodes and that feels faster paced as a result.
13 episodes over 2 seasons, those extra 7 episodes could have contributed greatly.
This post was edited on 5/17/19 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 5/17/19 at 2:05 pm to buckeye_vol
Seems like they just didnt want to pay their actors by the episode or something
Posted on 5/17/19 at 2:09 pm to Scoob
quote:
And as things grew, the "HBO touch" receded; no more blatant nudity from the leads, no more lack of judgement being read into the scenes, as this became mainstream. And as noted, they had to go somewhere with the story, which Martin neglected to finish.
It would have been like trying to finish a Conan movie trilogy that somehow became 'respectable', and you had to revise Conan to make him cleaner and noble, instead of what he was.
Look what Sony/AMC did with Walter White. Breaking Bad had that "feel", never had to make it cleaner or resort to sex and nudity. Good story is good story.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 2:15 pm to Scoob
quote:
But as you noted, we then get the HBO touch, with R-rated sex and nudity. Basically, it was the modern B movie platform, with better funding than they'd get otherwise.
They were just doing what was in the books. It was just HBO is allowed to put that in there. Its not like they added all that on their own.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 2:22 pm to SEClint
quote:But HBO did change the tone of GoT as it grew.quote:
It would have been like trying to finish a Conan movie trilogy that somehow became 'respectable', and you had to revise Conan to make him cleaner and noble, instead of what he was.
Look what Sony/AMC did with Walter White. Breaking Bad had that "feel", never had to make it cleaner or resort to sex and nudity. Good story is good story.
Hell, part of the reason Littlefinger was so effective was because he ran the best whorehouses, and everybody was fricking and giving up secrets there.
Now, we don't get nudity unless it's a preset slimeball character like Bronn. Early episodes had Jaime and Cersei getting it doggystyle, we just get 'afterwards' with Cersei and Euron.
And Breaking Bad is not Game of Thrones. It didn't start off with sex and nudity, and it didn't have marketing everywhere (Johnny Walker White Walker whiskey, for example). I'm surprised there weren't McD Happy Meals for the different Houses going into this last season.
Posted on 5/17/19 at 2:39 pm to SEClint
Patience is what lead the show down a road where there was no way 16 episodes worth of television could successfully resolve all the loose ends without feeling rushed.
I think GRRM left them in a spot where he’s gonna basically need 4 books in 2 to get from book 5 to the end of 7, and D&D are supposed to figure it out in 3 seasons.
I think GRRM left them in a spot where he’s gonna basically need 4 books in 2 to get from book 5 to the end of 7, and D&D are supposed to figure it out in 3 seasons.
This post was edited on 5/17/19 at 2:40 pm
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