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re: Why are the Astros so awful?
Posted on 5/14/13 at 11:01 pm to Klark Kent
Posted on 5/14/13 at 11:01 pm to Klark Kent
Yeah, that's why.
1
Posted on 5/14/13 at 11:02 pm to mattz1122
lol. sorry just wanted say hey mattz
Posted on 5/14/13 at 11:17 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Crane didnt just spend 600 mil to pull revenue sharing. Houston is a very productive market for the Astros, one of the largest in the league. I believe when it's time to spend cash they will
Posted on 5/14/13 at 11:29 pm to Sparty1
farm system has been putrid the last 15 years
Posted on 5/14/13 at 11:36 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Yeah, they are walking the line in a big way.
But there's really nothing anybody can do about it. If people say, "Well you are just tanking on purpose," they can easily say, "Well we have this 10-year-plan in place, you can't tell me how to run my organization."
It's basically the Pittsburgh Pirates for the past 20 years.
I'm not saying they don't have a plan and aren't genuine about it, but it's definitely questionable.
But there's really nothing anybody can do about it. If people say, "Well you are just tanking on purpose," they can easily say, "Well we have this 10-year-plan in place, you can't tell me how to run my organization."
It's basically the Pittsburgh Pirates for the past 20 years.
I'm not saying they don't have a plan and aren't genuine about it, but it's definitely questionable.
Posted on 5/14/13 at 11:49 pm to TH03
Astro fans, welcome to the hell that Royals fans have lived through and especially since David Glass brought Wal*Mart mentality to MLB.
Posted on 5/14/13 at 11:53 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
If you want to see what new owners who actually want to win do, check out what Mark Anastasio did with the Brewers. He actually spent money and guess what, the team became a lot more competitive immediately and the farm system wasn't hurt by it.
I don't even know what to do with this post. First of all, when Attanasio took over as owner, he was blessed with the 3rd ranked farm system in baseball. That was down 2 spots from the #1 ranking in 2004. Rickie Weeks (2005 #8 prospect) was a starter and RoY candidate. The #19 prospect JJ Hardy also joined that team. Later that year, the #15 prospect Prince Fielder joined the team. That's the #8, 15 and 19 ranked prospects on 1 team in 1 season. 2 seasons later the #26 prospect Ryan Bruan joined the Brewers. Attanasio inherited an extremely talented farm system the day he took over.
In 2004, the Brewers were last in payroll at $27MM. In Attanasio's first season 2005, the payroll was upped $13MM. They improved by 13 wins. In 2006, the payroll was upped by another $17MM. The Brewers win total dropped by 6. Fast forwarding, the Brewers upped their payroll each of the next several years and the reward was modest.
2005: 81-81
2006: 75-87
2007: 83-79
2008: 90-72
2009: 80-82
2010: 77-85
2011: 96-66
2012: 83-79
So over an 8 year span, the increased spending netted 4 winning seasons and only 2 seasons that were better than mediocre. An average record of 83-79 is what the Astros should aspire to be?
As for the farm system:
2005: 3 (down from 1)
2006: 5 (down from 3)
2007: 7 (down from 5)
2008: 21 (down from 7)
2009: 10 (up from 21)
2010: 13 (down from 10)
2011: 30 (down from 13)
2012: 26 (up from 30)
2013: 23 (up from 26)
So the farm system wasn't hurt even though it was a top 10 system his first few years and thats dropped to a bottom 10 average his last 6 years?
Posted on 5/14/13 at 11:55 pm to OBUDan
quote:
I'm not saying they don't have a plan and aren't genuine about it, but it's definitely questionable.
A team spending that little on their roster (like the Marlins and Astros) should not be eligible the revenue sharing they receive or an extremely high draft pick. MLB needs to revisit this and cut off the profit sharing and give you no higher than middle tier draft pick when you intentionally tank like this.
I don't blame anyone for not signing expensive long term free agents when you have salary to burn... but not even trying to fill holes with 1-2 year contracts with journeyman players just sucks for everyone concerned.
Posted on 5/14/13 at 11:58 pm to Lsuhoohoo
quote:
Lsuhoohoo
quote:
I don't even know what to do with this post.
I'd say you figured it out.
Posted on 5/14/13 at 11:59 pm to molsusports
quote:
but not even trying to fill holes with 1-2 year contracts with journeyman players just sucks for everyone concerned.
Carlos Pena
Rick Ankiel
Erik Bedard
Philip Humber
Posted on 5/15/13 at 12:02 am to mattz1122
quote:
Carlos Pena
Rick Ankiel
Erik Bedard
Philip Humber
Ronny Cedeno, Jose Veras
Posted on 5/15/13 at 12:16 am to molsusports
quote:
but not even trying to fill holes with 1-2 year contracts with journeyman players just sucks for everyone concerned.
We answered your question. What do you want?
The very least you could do is read the article in this post to a get sense of their strategy and some actual context for the situation, the latter of which is key to this discussion. The Astros signed middling FA for years and neglected their farm system, which is why they're in this situation. Overpaying for someone like Kyle Lohse would not have benefited them in the long run.
And I fully acknowledge that Crane could turn the Astros into the new Pirates. But he's only had the team for one full season. At the very least he's stated his strategy and made some excellent personnel hires on the baseball side.
This post was edited on 5/15/13 at 12:18 am
Posted on 5/15/13 at 12:21 am to Lsuhoohoo
quote:
I don't even know what to do with this post.
I think you figured it out.
Posted on 5/15/13 at 12:24 am to mattz1122
FWIW I read the article and understood the strategy before reading it... if nothing else that should have been clear based on my comment on draft picks
Add to that if you actually read and digested the article you already know they are intentionally sucking (but still don't like it when someone points that out?)
Add to that if you actually read and digested the article you already know they are intentionally sucking (but still don't like it when someone points that out?)
Posted on 5/15/13 at 12:26 am to molsusports
quote:
already know they are intentionally sucking
No. shite. And they've made that clear. So why are you convinced this could only be a situation in which they're trying to pocket money from revenue sharing and become the new Pirates/Royals/etc?
Posted on 5/15/13 at 12:31 am to mattz1122
you're reading more than I wrote.
The Astros atm are absolutely gaming the system in a way that is bad for baseball and should be prevented. That's my objection. If everyone trying to rebuild adopts this type of strategy baseball rapidly becomes an absolute joke in a major percentage of teh games played
The Astros atm are absolutely gaming the system in a way that is bad for baseball and should be prevented. That's my objection. If everyone trying to rebuild adopts this type of strategy baseball rapidly becomes an absolute joke in a major percentage of teh games played
Posted on 5/15/13 at 12:58 am to TH03
quote:
why is it hard to believe that after seeing what the nationals were able to build fairly quickly since their move to DC, the astros would try the same? it's the best solution that doesn't involve mortgaging the organization for 1 or 2 star players.
To be honest though, the Nationals were lucky enough to be able to draft Stephen Strasburg and Bryce Harper back-to-back.
There's no Bryce Harper coming along for the Astros I feel like. The Nats also got lucky that A LOT of top picks panned out like Desmond, Storen, Detwiler and made some nifty moves to acquire Ramos, Clippard, Suzuki, Gio.
And they also spent a shitload of money to acquire Werth. I don't know I'm just not a big fan of what the Astros are doing, because I truly believe the Nationals got lucky as shite to do what they're doing now, and I'm a Nats fan. I sat through the shite years, and was skeptical of the plan. Obviously the draft picks of Stras and Harper are really what gave people hope.
I don't know, I just don't like what the 'Stros are doing.
Posted on 5/15/13 at 1:03 am to Bluegrass_Cat
Because their starting pitching is deplorable.
Posted on 5/15/13 at 5:34 am to Bluegrass_Cat
quote:I agree. They were very fortunate to have sucked in the right years to get those 2 guys
the Nationals were lucky enough to be able to draft Stephen Strasburg and Bryce Harper back-to-back.
quote:excellent scouting as well
The Nats also got lucky that A LOT of top picks panned out like Desmond, Storen, Detwiler
quote:excellent front office decisions, not luck though
made some nifty moves to acquire Ramos, Clippard, Suzuki, Gio
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