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re: Who was the better pitcher: Nolan Ryan vs Pedro Martinez
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:36 pm to SportsGuyNOLA
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:36 pm to SportsGuyNOLA
Ryan was a freak of nature.
He dwarfs Pedro's much celebrated "peak years" in today's media and especially Bill Simmons.
Pedro couldn't hold Ryan's jock.
Ryan didn't need timing or place or circumstance and pitch selection to make a name for himself.
The man was always relevant because of his heat.
I respect greatness when it = longevity.
A lot of people can peak...for a brief period - happens in every sport.
What the frick happened to Penny Hardaway? Is he now going to the NBA Hall?
He dwarfs Pedro's much celebrated "peak years" in today's media and especially Bill Simmons.
Pedro couldn't hold Ryan's jock.
Ryan didn't need timing or place or circumstance and pitch selection to make a name for himself.
The man was always relevant because of his heat.
I respect greatness when it = longevity.
A lot of people can peak...for a brief period - happens in every sport.
What the frick happened to Penny Hardaway? Is he now going to the NBA Hall?
2
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:36 pm to SPEEDY
quote:
I would the better strikeout pitcher
Strikeouts Per 9 innings Career Average
Nolan: 9.5
Pedro: 10.0
And that undersells it a bit when you consider that Ryan had more oppurtunites for strikeouts since he gave up more baserunners per inning, thus faced more batters per inning.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:38 pm to Patton
Pedro
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:39 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
Then Pedro without a doubt.
Wouldn't say without a doubt, since Nolan has 7 no nos and Pedro doesn't have one.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:40 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
A lot of people can peak...for a brief period - happens in every sport.
What the frick happened to Penny Hardaway? Is he now going to the NBA Hall?
Really comparing Pedro career to Penny Hardaways?
quote:
Pedro couldn't hold Ryan's jock.
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 3:42 pm
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:41 pm to RedHawk
Why does everyone want a few great years?
Bunch of shitty GM's up in here.
I'll take the guy who was great and relevant forever.
I'll take the guy who was always relevant because he had one of the greatest arms of all-time.
He didn't need to have his "good stuff" - he could rely on his heat.
I'll take the pure...god-given crazy heat guy...who plays forever...for my team.
You guys can have Pedro's Boston years and wank with Bill Simmons.
Bunch of shitty GM's up in here.
I'll take the guy who was great and relevant forever.
I'll take the guy who was always relevant because he had one of the greatest arms of all-time.
He didn't need to have his "good stuff" - he could rely on his heat.
I'll take the pure...god-given crazy heat guy...who plays forever...for my team.
You guys can have Pedro's Boston years and wank with Bill Simmons.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:41 pm to Patton
Prime Pedro was easily better!
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:42 pm to LasVegasTiger
Penny had 5 prime years!
Just like Pedro.
But, no...I'm not comparing...that was a joke.
Just don't understand all the Pedro love. Yeah...he was fantastic and dominate...but he dissipated.
Flowed away...
Just like Pedro.
But, no...I'm not comparing...that was a joke.
Just don't understand all the Pedro love. Yeah...he was fantastic and dominate...but he dissipated.
Flowed away...
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:43 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
I'll take the guy who was great and relevant forever.
You really think Ryan was great for all 27 years?
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:43 pm to lsu480
No shite.
No one is arguing that.
But his prime was short as shite.
No one is arguing that.
But his prime was short as shite.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:44 pm to LasVegasTiger
No.
But he was useful.
And did throw a no-no as an old man.
But he was useful.
And did throw a no-no as an old man.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:48 pm to Zamoro10
All I'm saying is...if I were a GM...I'd take Ryan...if I knew I'd get that kind of career out of him - for so long.
True...he might never achieve uber-awesomeness...
But that's a fine line for baseball nerds.
Ryan did his job for so long...and with so much power...he's a GM's dream.
Pedro might have had great stuff and scouting reports..but he never had the God-given stuff of Ryan that doesn't need scouting reports.
Everyone in baseball takes the flame-thrower who can pitch forever...every scout, every GM, everyone.
The flame-thrower is always the golden-goose.
True...he might never achieve uber-awesomeness...
But that's a fine line for baseball nerds.
Ryan did his job for so long...and with so much power...he's a GM's dream.
Pedro might have had great stuff and scouting reports..but he never had the God-given stuff of Ryan that doesn't need scouting reports.
Everyone in baseball takes the flame-thrower who can pitch forever...every scout, every GM, everyone.
The flame-thrower is always the golden-goose.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:50 pm to Zamoro10
The only reason his prime was "short" is because how unreal it was. Pedro was great for ten years (1996-2005), but since 1999-2000 were the best seasons ever for a pitcher it gets called his peak. The other eight seasons around them match up with any of Ryan's peak seasons.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:52 pm to Zamoro10
There is no way on earth you can take Nolan Ryan. People have covered peak value, but you want career value?
Ryan had a career ERA+ of 112. Yes, he had 5714 K. He also had 2795 walks, which is one of the most untouchable records in baseball. 2nd place is 1833.
Pedro had an ERA+ of 154. ONE FIFTY FOUR. that's other-worldly. You want a bunch of strikeouts? Ryan is your guy. you want a guy who PREVENTS RUNS, you take Pedro every day of the week. Pedro is the pitcher people think Sandy Koufax is. In the middle of the game's biggest offensive explosion, there was Pedro dominating hitters. And it's not like he's some flash in the pan: he pitched for 18 seasons.
Pedro had double Ryan's K/BB ratio. Double. Ryan only cared about strikeouts. Pedro cared about pitching - and preventing runs. Which is what a pitcher's job is.
Pedro has the highest ERA+ for a starter in baseball history. Ryan's puts him in the class of Orel Hersheiser and Wilson Alvarez (271st all-time). He was better than those guys, but it gives you an idea of his run prevention ability.
Ryan had a career ERA+ of 112. Yes, he had 5714 K. He also had 2795 walks, which is one of the most untouchable records in baseball. 2nd place is 1833.
Pedro had an ERA+ of 154. ONE FIFTY FOUR. that's other-worldly. You want a bunch of strikeouts? Ryan is your guy. you want a guy who PREVENTS RUNS, you take Pedro every day of the week. Pedro is the pitcher people think Sandy Koufax is. In the middle of the game's biggest offensive explosion, there was Pedro dominating hitters. And it's not like he's some flash in the pan: he pitched for 18 seasons.
Pedro had double Ryan's K/BB ratio. Double. Ryan only cared about strikeouts. Pedro cared about pitching - and preventing runs. Which is what a pitcher's job is.
Pedro has the highest ERA+ for a starter in baseball history. Ryan's puts him in the class of Orel Hersheiser and Wilson Alvarez (271st all-time). He was better than those guys, but it gives you an idea of his run prevention ability.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:53 pm to Patton
quote:
Pedro
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:57 pm to LasVegasTiger
quote:
You really think Ryan was great for all 27 years?
Pretty much. Always had a lot of strikeouts with a low era. He only had one year with an ERA over 4 and had 8 seasons with an ERA under 3.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 3:59 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
But his prime was short as shite.
Pedro was All-Time Elite/Dominant for 7 years, (1997 to 2003) and was great for 13 years, (1993 to 2005)
From 93 to 05, Pedro had a:
197-83 Record
2.72 ERA
1.02 WHIP
10.3 SO9
2.4 BB9
You are acting like he had 3 or 4 great years and nothing else
If only Pedro would have started juicing like Nolan did at age 34, maybe he could have added to his counting stats like Nolan did
This post was edited on 8/13/14 at 9:02 pm
Posted on 8/13/14 at 4:01 pm to RedHawk
quote:
Pretty much. Always had a lot of strikeouts with a low era. He only had one year with an ERA over 4 and had 8 seasons with an ERA under 3.
ERA is the one thing you dont want to include in this debate as it pertains to Nolan Ryan
Posted on 8/13/14 at 4:02 pm to Baloo
I don't care about "peak value"
The question was:
Who was the better pitcher.
Ryan is the better pitcher because he did more, was greater more, lasted longer and provided more for your investment.
Being a better pitcher isn't about - your freak optimum years.
It's about your overall resume.
Overall resume...you easily take Ryan.
He was the better pitcher...a pitcher's life is their whole career and what they mean't to the game...
Not just some great season highlights. That's bullshite...a lot of mediocre players in sports history have had wonderful awesome years.
Ryan did it for the long haul and performed. That to me = the better pitcher.
The question was:
Who was the better pitcher.
Ryan is the better pitcher because he did more, was greater more, lasted longer and provided more for your investment.
Being a better pitcher isn't about - your freak optimum years.
It's about your overall resume.
Overall resume...you easily take Ryan.
He was the better pitcher...a pitcher's life is their whole career and what they mean't to the game...
Not just some great season highlights. That's bullshite...a lot of mediocre players in sports history have had wonderful awesome years.
Ryan did it for the long haul and performed. That to me = the better pitcher.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 4:03 pm to SPEEDY
quote:
ERA is the one thing you dont want to include in this debate as it pertains to Nolan Ryan
Why not? He had a career 3.19 ERA in 27 seasons. That is damn tough to do.
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