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Started By
Message
re: Who was the better pitcher: Nolan Ryan vs Pedro Martinez
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:26 am to offshoretrash
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:26 am to offshoretrash
quote:
I'm not gonna post their numbers to compare go look them up
I already have and I reached my conclusion. Pedro was better
quote:.
The guy was a winner! Who knows how his career would have turned out if he had played 17 or 20 yrs.
I'm sure it would have been awesome, but we'll never know, all we have to go on is the career he actually had. Then again, we got here because the argument against Pedro was that he didn't have the longevity Ryan had. Now you're using that point against him and giving Koufax the benefit of a blank canvas?
1
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:27 am to OneMoreTime
quote:
Old people.
This
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:27 am to offshoretrash
quote:
As I said before I am not trying to take anything from Pedro. He is a HOF'er and top 20 all time pitcher
Ya think?
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:27 am to dnm3305
My favorite part of that:
quote:
The guy was a winner!
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:29 am to LL012697
quote:Yeah, what if pedro pitched 9 more years?!
Then again, we got here because the argument against Pedro was that he didn't have the longevity Ryan had. Now you're using that point against him and giving Koufax the benefit of a blank canvas?
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:29 am to OneMoreTime
I'm surprised the "you had to be there" line hasn't come out yet.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:30 am to offshoretrash
quote:
Just a civil baseball discussion
For a while, anyway.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:32 am to OneMoreTime
quote:
Yeah, what if pedro pitched 9 more years?!
Soul Glo would still be in business.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:35 am to LasVegasTiger
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:52 am to Poodlebrain
quote:
Not true. Koufax played in a time when there were 10 fewer major league teams. That means there were 80 guys on major league rosters facing Martinez who would have been in the minors when Koufax was playing.
That isnt any indication that the talent has diluted. You act like the population is the same now as it was 40 years ago In 1965, there was approximately 190 million people in the US
Today, there are over 315 million people in the United States.
So thats more than 125 million people extra to pull from to get those 80 new guys.
And that doesnt even take into account that over 25% of the players today are born outside the US.
Hell, the Dominican Republic and Venezuela easily make up the difference by themselves, without taking into account the huge population increase
Posted on 8/14/14 at 12:08 pm to offshoretrash
quote:
How old are you? There have been 10 to 15 better pitchers than Pedro. Bob Gibson's 1968 season is one of the all time greats. He pitched 100 more innings, threw 13 shut outs, 28 complete games and an ERA of 1.12.
Yeah, that 1.12 ERA is great, but it isnt as impressive as Pedro's 1.74 ERA in 2000.
In 1968, the average ERA was 2.99.
In 2000, the average ERA was 4.92
So the year that Gibson went for 1.12, the average pitcher had an ERA of under 3
The year Pedro had a 1.74 ERA, the average pitcher had an ERA of almost FIVE
That is just insane
Posted on 8/14/14 at 12:24 pm to offshoretrash
quote:
3 CY, 1 MVP, 3 WS rings, 2 WS MVP, 4 No Hitters, and 1 perfect game, is not enough? I'm not gonna post their numbers to compare go look them up. SK had a 5 year run that was very similar to Pedros but he won more games, had a lower ERA, more strike outs, more innings pitched, more shut outs, and should have won a 4th CY in a row. The guy was a winner! Who knows how his career would have turned out if he had played 17 or 20 yrs.
Gotta agree with all of that.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:38 pm to Poodlebrain
quote:
it is certainly reasonable to make arguments based on changing the circumstances each played under.
Also add to the fact that Koufax probably struck out less guys in innings 7-9 when he was fading. Whereas Pedro was usually pulled in the 6th and 7th inning before he started to fade and thus kept up his K's per inning.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:52 pm to RedHawk
Koufax averaged 7.85 innings per start in 1966. Pedro 7.5 per start in 2000. A third of an inning. Seems fairly negligible to me.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 1:54 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
Talking one game situation where both are at their best.
quote:
Then Pedro without a doubt.
No because at their best Nolan throws a no hitter and Pedro doesn't. Pretty simple answer.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 2:00 pm to WG_Tiger23
Nothing like whittling your Nolan Ryan sample size down by over 99% (766 out of 773 games)
Why not trim it down by 6 more games and say you'd take Phillip Humber, Dallas Braden, & Mark Buehrle over Ryan because they've have had a game where they allowed even fewer base runners?
Why not trim it down by 6 more games and say you'd take Phillip Humber, Dallas Braden, & Mark Buehrle over Ryan because they've have had a game where they allowed even fewer base runners?
Posted on 8/14/14 at 2:00 pm to WG_Tiger23
I guess you would rather Philip Humber (and his 5.31 career ERA)than either since he threw a perfect game and neither Ryan or Pedro did.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 2:01 pm to WG_Tiger23
quote:
No because at their best Nolan throws a no hitter and Pedro doesn't. Pretty simple answer.
Some guy named Bud Smith tossed a no hitter, doesn't mean I would take him over Pedro just because he has a no hitter and Pedro doesn't.
Hell Dallas Braden tossed one.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 2:02 pm to LasVegasTiger
This thread is why I hate baseball
Posted on 8/14/14 at 2:06 pm to The Seaward
OP clarified a one game situation with them on their A game.
That was at his best so sure why not.
Guaranteed to be at their best that day, then sure.
That was at his best so sure why not.
Guaranteed to be at their best that day, then sure.
This post was edited on 8/14/14 at 2:07 pm
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