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re: Statistical comparison: First 5 NFL seasons of Peyton Manning and Cam Newton
Posted on 8/12/16 at 1:43 pm to CocoLoco
Posted on 8/12/16 at 1:43 pm to CocoLoco
quote:
Manning showed improvement each year, though.
Cam was the same guy for four years (12-15th best QB) then has one great season. Is the one great season an anomaly? I'll wait and see.
You have a point.
Although I would argue that Cam's stats after his rookie year were affected by injury and a lack of help. Particularly on the OL and at WR, which would affect a QB more than anything.
I'm not sure how strong Peyton's OL was back then, but he did have a HOF WR in Marvin Harrison and very good RBs. Wasn't Marshall Faulk still there in 98, and Edgerin James was one of the best RBs in the league at that time as well
I personally believe the dramatic improvement we saw last year is more his normal self, but like you said we'll have to wait and see
0
Posted on 8/12/16 at 1:54 pm to TechDawg2007
quote:
Good God you're an idiot. You're comparing a QB who has been good for 2-3 seasons to one who is a first ballot HOF
But considering how surprising close the passing stats are, and that Cam has been slightly more productive overall, do you not think it's possible that Cam might also be heading towards the Hall?
In such a short time Cam has already established himself as one of the 2 most prolific running quarterbacks in NFL history. He's already tied the record for most rushing touchdowns in a career for a QB, and at his current pace will break Mike Vicks record for most rushing yards in a career by a QB in another 5 seasons.
He may have only had "2-3 good years" but with what he's already accomplished all he'll need is another 2-3 good years to have a legitimate argument for the Hall.
Posted on 8/12/16 at 1:56 pm to BowlJackson
What is the point of the rushing statistics other than another way to prop up Cam?
Posted on 8/12/16 at 1:58 pm to BowlJackson
A guy you paid to attend your school has become your obsession.
Posted on 8/12/16 at 2:03 pm to Black n Gold
quote:
All I took from that is that Cam has a much better defense than Manning had.
Considering how much better the offensive weapons Manning had were than what Cam has had and the fact that Cam has had a better record than Manning did, that's a safe assumption.
But you know, you can keep scrolling past their records and I've provided literally every stat worth looking at for a QB and then some. If you did in fact see that, I'm not sure how you think their defense would affect their individual offensive numbers.
Posted on 8/12/16 at 2:06 pm to BowlJackson
quote:
How do you think that affects the stats?
Uh passing stats have shot up since the rule changes? 5k yards is almost common place at this point where it was statistically insane back when he started.
You are comparing Manning Pre-Ty Law rule to Newton post Ty Law rule.
This post was edited on 8/12/16 at 2:07 pm
Posted on 8/12/16 at 2:07 pm to VolInBavaria
quote:
Manning 2, Cam 0. Only fact that is relevant
Posted on 8/12/16 at 2:10 pm to Jcorye1
Preach!
What I took from this is that Manning has better stats and a was a better QB in a time where you could rough up receivers and quarterbacks.
What I took from this is that Manning has better stats and a was a better QB in a time where you could rough up receivers and quarterbacks.
Posted on 8/12/16 at 2:12 pm to theducks
quote:
What is the point of the rushing statistics other than another way to prop up Cam?
Because it factors into their overall production. Being a QB doesn't just mean passing, good QBs lead their teams to wins and that's one way Cam gets the job done.
When Cam's career is done rushing will be a big part of how his career is viewed
Peyton is the most prolific passer of all time, that is a fact.
Cam is a very good passer. But he's also well on his way to being the the prolific running QB of all time. His only real competition for that title is Vick. Cam is a better passer than Vick ever was, so you could honestly argue that Cam is already the most prolific Dual-threat QB in NFL history
Posted on 8/12/16 at 2:14 pm to VolInBavaria
quote:Well that just isn't true
Manning 2, Cam 0. Only fact that is relevant
Posted on 8/12/16 at 2:15 pm to BowlJackson
Loved the Manning vs Newton rushing comparison
Posted on 8/12/16 at 2:27 pm to VolInBavaria
quote:
Manning 2, Cam 0. Only fact that is relevant
dumbest argument ever. Cam is an amazing qb, he does some things on the field that a qb shouldnt be able to do. Comparing stats at this point doesnt matter, its about career. If cam can keep this up another 10 years he will be an all time great. Superbowls does not determine how good a player is. If cam can keep this pace up, and never win a superbowl he will be a great.
Posted on 8/12/16 at 2:29 pm to BowlJackson
quote:
I thought this would be interesting
You thought wrong.
Posted on 8/12/16 at 2:31 pm to Jcorye1
So common place that only 5 QBs in NFL history have ever accomplished it.
You're right about the physicality of the game though. But Cam's size and athletisicm allow him to be one of the most physical QBs I can think of. Seems like his style of play would have translated well, but I guess we'll never know.
Cam has been roughed up plenty though. He's had probably the worst OL in the NFL most of his career. For a couple season the Panthers didn't have an OT on the roster that was drafted. Cam has spent an awful lot of time running from defending. No QB has come close to being hit as many times as Newton since he's been in the NFL, even when you take away designed runs where he knew he would be hit.
I don't remember how good the Colt's OL was back then, but Edgerrin James lead the NFL in rushing in 99 and 00, and in 98 Manning had Marshall Faulk. That helps take pressure off big time.
You're right about the physicality of the game though. But Cam's size and athletisicm allow him to be one of the most physical QBs I can think of. Seems like his style of play would have translated well, but I guess we'll never know.
Cam has been roughed up plenty though. He's had probably the worst OL in the NFL most of his career. For a couple season the Panthers didn't have an OT on the roster that was drafted. Cam has spent an awful lot of time running from defending. No QB has come close to being hit as many times as Newton since he's been in the NFL, even when you take away designed runs where he knew he would be hit.
I don't remember how good the Colt's OL was back then, but Edgerrin James lead the NFL in rushing in 99 and 00, and in 98 Manning had Marshall Faulk. That helps take pressure off big time.
Posted on 8/12/16 at 2:39 pm to hg
I know it looks silly, but you really can't leave rushing of the conversation when discussing Newton.
Honestly I was surprised at Manning's rushing numbers. This season he was barely mobile enough to drop back, so I think a lot of people would be surprised to hear he had 550 yards and 9 TDs rushing over his whole career, let alone in a 5 year span.
I wish I could've seen the face of the DC who's team gave up a 33 yard run to Peyton Manning
Honestly I was surprised at Manning's rushing numbers. This season he was barely mobile enough to drop back, so I think a lot of people would be surprised to hear he had 550 yards and 9 TDs rushing over his whole career, let alone in a 5 year span.
I wish I could've seen the face of the DC who's team gave up a 33 yard run to Peyton Manning
Posted on 8/12/16 at 2:43 pm to CocoLoco
quote:
Manning showed improvement each year, though.
Cam was the same guy for four years (12-15th best QB) then has one great season. Is the one great season an anomaly? I'll wait and see
Just promise to not start a thread about it.
Posted on 8/12/16 at 2:49 pm to BowlJackson
quote:
So common place that only 5 QBs in NFL history have ever accomplished
It's happened 8 times overall and once before 2007. Derp. The average QB's stats have also shot through the roof.
ESPN Article On How Average QB's Stats Are Improving Every Year.
So, in short, unless you do some projecting or put a huge caveat that the leagues passing is fundamentally different, your stats are not exactly useful. Ergo any argument you make has a fundamental flaw of false equivalence
This post was edited on 8/12/16 at 3:02 pm
Posted on 8/12/16 at 2:59 pm to BowlJackson
quote:
quote:
Good God you're an idiot. You're comparing a QB who has been good for 2-3 seasons to one who is a first ballot HOF
But considering how surprising close the passing stats are, and that Cam has been slightly more productive overall, do you not think it's possible that Cam might also be heading towards the Hall?
In such a short time Cam has already established himself as one of the 2 most prolific running quarterbacks in NFL history. He's already tied the record for most rushing touchdowns in a career for a QB, and at his current pace will break Mike Vicks record for most rushing yards in a career by a QB in another 5 seasons.
He may have only had "2-3 good years" but with what he's already accomplished all he'll need is another 2-3 good years to have a legitimate argument for the Hall
not a very high bar to overcome far as running qb are concerned ... weren't that many to begin with and his production there will undoubtedly diminish, or at least it should ...
far as the hof is concerned, 2-3 good years with another 2-3 good years gives you 4-6 good years, which is what several good, but not great, qbs have (and a few have a ring) ... no one thinks cam isn't a very good player with a chance to have a very successful career ... you're searching for rebuttals to an argument that isn't being made ...
Posted on 8/12/16 at 3:11 pm to BowlJackson
You always come across as a whiny bitch on this board
Posted on 8/12/16 at 3:13 pm to BowlJackson
Peyton's first 5 seasons were before the 04 rule changes so I'm not sure if this a good comparison.
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