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Started By
Message
re: Should basketball coaches be able to decline free throws?
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:12 am to CubsFanBudMan
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:12 am to CubsFanBudMan
quote:Not really. With a lead, a coach will take infinite possession over free throw attempts. If the rule only applied to away from the play fouls, it might work. I still am against it.
adds to the strategy
This post was edited on 1/27/16 at 11:14 am
1
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:14 am to Mr.Perfect
quote:thats funny bc the team that is fouling at the end is the team that hasn't been putting it in the hoop
The game is about putting the ball in the hoop
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:15 am to Goldrush25
quote:
No one ever bought a ticket or turned on their TV to see Hack-a-Shaq.
90% of the games I watch, when they start all of the bullshite fouling at the end of games to "catch up" I turn the channel. It's boring as shite, and not entertaining at all. Its especially bad when teams that are down more than 15 points are doing it. It's like it's a human habit to do it.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:15 am to ballscaster
quote:
Most likely I'll foul you, but so what? A foul doesn't hurt me here.
You can't ignore that it will add to your foul total. You keep saying it as if it's some small, insignificant thing, but it isn't.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:17 am to Kracka
quote:I think the post you are responding to is more a reference to early game fouling than end of game situations. End of game fouling can be boring, but also can lead to extremely exciting finishes. I like the strategy aspect in late game situations.
when they start all of the bullshite fouling at the end of games to "catch up" I turn the channel.
This post was edited on 1/27/16 at 11:19 am
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:19 am to ballscaster
quote:If you are lunging for the ball, then that's not an off-the-ball foul. On-ball fouls in the penalty are always free throws.
You don't get it. Down 8 with a minute left, and I'm lunging for that ball willy nilly. Most likely I'll foul you, but so what? A foul doesn't hurt me here.
See the problem?
I assume we're talking about trying to eliminate the "hack-a" strategy from the game, and only talking about off-ball fouls.
This post was edited on 1/27/16 at 11:21 am
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:44 am to fightingtiger2335
Did y'all even read what I responded to?
Context is important
And yea, everyone gets that it is a strategy. That is the point of the thread.
No shite it's a part of the game. The objective of basketball, however, is not to foul the opponent or reward the defensive team for committing fouls.
Hence why there is a penalty for fouling. The discussion of this thread is asking whether or not the penatly accomplishes what it is supposed to.
If you're using general statements like basketball is about putting the ball in the hoop, then defense is not about fouling.
Context is important
And yea, everyone gets that it is a strategy. That is the point of the thread.
quote:
its why after so many fouls you get penalized and your opponent gets free uncontested shot to achieve games objective which is to put ball in basket.
No shite it's a part of the game. The objective of basketball, however, is not to foul the opponent or reward the defensive team for committing fouls.
Hence why there is a penalty for fouling. The discussion of this thread is asking whether or not the penatly accomplishes what it is supposed to.
If you're using general statements like basketball is about putting the ball in the hoop, then defense is not about fouling.
This post was edited on 1/27/16 at 11:51 am
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:49 am to Goldrush25
quote:
No one can deny that it makes the game unwatchable.
Sure...but why is it unwatchable?
One reason...guys refuse to learn how to hit even a mediocre percentage of free throws. If every player on the floor was hitting 70+ percent (which is without question attainable for any NBA player willing to bother to put in at least a bit of practice at it) this strategy would cease.
I guess this is the middle aged white guy in me, but I swear to holy hell I'll never understand why guys refuse to become better FT shooters...if only for their own personal stat line! shite...you can learn to throw a god damned tennis ball through a basketball hoop if you stand there and practice long enough...other than thinking it's unimportant there is no excuse for not doing the same for this part of the game.
Now, with that...get off my lawn!
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:52 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
If every player on the floor was hitting 70+ percent (which is without question attainable for any NBA player willing to bother to put in at least a bit of practice at it) this strategy would cease.
It is not without a question attainable. Several factors come into play for bigger guys, especially length and the mental aspect of the game. Harder to be precise with a longer lever
Plenty have put in the work and can't consistently hit 70%
No amount of hard work will make up for the 10+ years of not working on their perimeter game either and coordination tends to come later for them
Those type of players are going to have a much lower ceiling, which I would put in the 70% range at best
This post was edited on 1/27/16 at 11:59 am
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:57 am to CubsFanBudMan
quote:
It would be a strategy decision. If a foul is committed before the inbound, the team that is fouled may want to run time off the clock, and risk the inbound play again. It would also give the other team a chance for a steal on the inbound.
Good point. It would completely change the end of game situation. Instead of a constant parade of guys going to the free throw line, the losing team would have the option instead of continuously trying to inbound the ball. Outside end of game situations, it definitely adds a layer of strategic consideration. Like going for two in the first half of a football game.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 11:59 am to Kracka
quote:
Because Free throws, just like any shot are a chance to score. Possession is absolute and gives an unfair advantage to the team gaining possession of the ball.
Well, the team with the ball is getting fouled in the first place...so they already had an advantageous position. Basically, the point is, a team should not be able to gain an advantage by fouling. It's just like declining a penalty in football.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 12:00 pm to GeauxTigerTM
Making the free throws doesn't always solve the problem when teams are hitting 3s without letting the other team use any clock.
No where in my op did I mention the NBA. This idea came to me while watching college games last night.
No where in my op did I mention the NBA. This idea came to me while watching college games last night.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 12:02 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
By that silly logic, football teams shouldn't be allowed to intentionally commit a delay of game penalty to give their punter more room to operate.
The opposing coach can decline that penalty. So you basically just made the point for us.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 12:07 pm to ballscaster
quote:
LSU vs Ole Miss, final minute, LSU up by 8. Now, Ole Miss will play an unrealistically aggressive style of defense, desperately trying to steal the ball, knowing that a foul doesn't really hurt them. This will create all types of problems at the ends of games. Injuries and fights would inevitably increase because of the warped brand of last-minute basketball created. Ole Miss in this case ironically would commit more fouls here than they do with today's rules because they would be playing with a complete disregard for fouls.
Wrong. The team that's down already does play aggressively trying to steal the ball. And keep in mind that when they do foul, the other coach could actually have his guy shoot the free throws. So then the strategy for the team that's down becomes, who can we foul that might actually take them? And also remember, in full court press late game situations, it's sometimes difficult to inbound the ball. If the team that is up is out of time outs, it could get crazy in a hurry, as they wouldn't have a time out if they can't get it in.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 12:11 pm to CubsFanBudMan
What was the final minute like before teams started fouling to get the ball back? If you were down 4 or 5 did you just trap and pray because you'd pretty much be screwed. Now you can easily make up that deficit by fouling. He'll Georgia almost made up 12 points last night.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 12:18 pm to ballscaster
quote:
You don't get it. Down 8 with a minute left, and I'm lunging for that ball willy nilly. Most likely I'll foul you, but so what? A foul doesn't hurt me here.
See the problem?
A foul puts a player in jeopardy of being disqualified, for one. Also, the opposing coach, assuming he declines the FTs STILL HAS TO INBOUND THE BALL. In late game situations that often leads to turnovers.
Not to mention the coach of the team who is up can choose to shoot them. It's weighing the risk/reward of either having to inbound the ball with no chance at any points vs. taking a shot for a point or two but them not being guaranteed.
A more logical objection would simply be that the same amount of fouls would be committed, it's just that those fouls would potentially be followed by a constant set of inbounds attempts. What's more exciting, watching a guy try to make a FT or two, or the team that's down attempting to get a five second call or turnover on the inbound?
This post was edited on 1/27/16 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 1/27/16 at 12:18 pm to PearlJam
quote:Rule could be if you decline the FT's you don't get a new shot clock.
Not really. With a lead, a coach will take infinite possession over free throw attempts
Posted on 1/27/16 at 12:23 pm to The Mick
quote:
Rule could be if you decline the FT's you don't get a new shot clock.
His point was absurd and illogical to start with. The other team isn't going to foul indefinitely because everyone would foul out. Second, most coaches would take the foul shots early in the game. Third, the other team could actually play straight up D and try to get a stop.
Posted on 1/27/16 at 12:51 pm to Chucktown_Badger
I personally don't think there is anything wrong with end of game situations.
Very rarely does a bad free throw shooter shoot free throws at end of game situations because his teammates don't pass him the ball when they know the other team is looking to foul.
The whole controversy with the "hack-a-Shaq" situations don't apply to end of games. "Hack-a-Shaq" is when, for example, randomly in the 2nd quarter the coach decides to instruct his team to foul the worst free throw shooter on the other team as he's running up the court away from the ball to put him on the free throw line. And they keep fouling him away from the ball over and over again in the middle of the game.
That's much different from the end of game scenarios where teams are trying to foul the ball-handler in order to stop the clock.
I think teams should be able to decline free throws for OFF-BALL fouls if they want to. Not on-ball fouls.
That way, if they are purposely fouling a terrible free throw shooter when he doesn't have the ball, then they can just opt to take the ball out again. But if they commit an off-ball foul on another one of your players, then you would want him to shoot the free throws.
Therefore, you remove the incentive to purposely foul one specific player off the ball and completely eliminate "hack-a-Shaq".
Very rarely does a bad free throw shooter shoot free throws at end of game situations because his teammates don't pass him the ball when they know the other team is looking to foul.
The whole controversy with the "hack-a-Shaq" situations don't apply to end of games. "Hack-a-Shaq" is when, for example, randomly in the 2nd quarter the coach decides to instruct his team to foul the worst free throw shooter on the other team as he's running up the court away from the ball to put him on the free throw line. And they keep fouling him away from the ball over and over again in the middle of the game.
That's much different from the end of game scenarios where teams are trying to foul the ball-handler in order to stop the clock.
I think teams should be able to decline free throws for OFF-BALL fouls if they want to. Not on-ball fouls.
That way, if they are purposely fouling a terrible free throw shooter when he doesn't have the ball, then they can just opt to take the ball out again. But if they commit an off-ball foul on another one of your players, then you would want him to shoot the free throws.
Therefore, you remove the incentive to purposely foul one specific player off the ball and completely eliminate "hack-a-Shaq".
Posted on 1/27/16 at 1:29 pm to fightingtiger2335
quote:Followed by:
Ugh if thats your argument then i cant discuss it
quote:is quite the funny argument in favor of the very skillful act of intentionally tapping the bad free throw shooter to get him to the line with 9 minutes left in the 2nd quarter.
Its a game of skill
The spirit of the foul rule was never intended to be used as it is now, it's absurd to think otherwise.
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