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Shotgun Dives on 4th and 1 in College Football
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:27 pm
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:27 pm
I’ve seen this play runs unsuccessfully a bunch of times during Bowl season and it has been a plague on college football since the proliferation on the spread offense the last decade or so.
Penn State, Iowa State, now Oregon have tried this dumb 4th and 1 play unsuccessfully just in the last several days. In the NFL, this situation is mostly either a pass, QB sneak, or FB Dive.
Obviously the one that just happened was a full yard and out of typical Sneak range, but I’m shocked how often college teams refuse to run QB sneaks in these situations.
Just bc you run a mostly shotgun offense doesn’t mean you can’t scheme up a QB Sneak with your QB under center, right?
Penn State, Iowa State, now Oregon have tried this dumb 4th and 1 play unsuccessfully just in the last several days. In the NFL, this situation is mostly either a pass, QB sneak, or FB Dive.
Obviously the one that just happened was a full yard and out of typical Sneak range, but I’m shocked how often college teams refuse to run QB sneaks in these situations.
Just bc you run a mostly shotgun offense doesn’t mean you can’t scheme up a QB Sneak with your QB under center, right?
9
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:31 pm to Billy Mays
If the only time you put the QB under center is to sneak, someone is bound to notice that fact.
In other words, you're telegraphing the play.
In other words, you're telegraphing the play.
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:33 pm to Billy Mays
quote:
Shotgun Dives on 4th and 1
It's utterly stupid to attempt. Dives are quick hitting run plays better designed to be done from under center. By doing it from shotgun/pistol, it allows more time for defensive linemen to penetrate & LBs to react.
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:34 pm to Billy Mays
It’s an epidemic in CFB
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:34 pm to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
If the only time you put the QB under center is to sneak, someone is bound to notice that fact.
In other words, you're telegraphing the play.
And it's still almost never stopped.
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:35 pm to Billy Mays
James Franklin’s favorite play.
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:37 pm to BigBrod81
I just don’t know why you would choose that over putting your rb at qb and for a direct snap. Either way the defense is selling out to stop the run on fourth and one. Save that half of a second in handoff time and have the rb hit the line ASAP.
This post was edited on 1/1/20 at 5:39 pm
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:38 pm to BigBrod81
It’s a very low IQ thing to attempt.
People need to realize that most college football coaches are dumb as hell. We’ve been told for decades how “brilliant” and “wise” the old ball coach is, but behind the smoke and mirrors most of them are not very bright.
People need to realize that most college football coaches are dumb as hell. We’ve been told for decades how “brilliant” and “wise” the old ball coach is, but behind the smoke and mirrors most of them are not very bright.
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:39 pm to Billy Mays
Chad Morris actually had one brilliant idea while at Arkansas. In shotgun on 3rd or 4th and 1, he had the TE motion across the line but stopped under center abruptly and took the snap for a sneak. Worked really well.
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:39 pm to FightinTigersDammit
It may be telegraphed but IIRC the metrics say the Sneak is one of the most successful plays in football.
I remember reading some article years ago that stated QB sneaks on the 4th and 1 or less were a ridiculous percentage in the NFL historically. Somewhere like 80 percent or some shite like that.
In practically I just don’t think the shotgun RB dive play makes any sense. The D is stacking the interior and expecting the run. I suppose not enough college teams trust their QB to make the throw otherwise, but I would almost prefer any play over a handoff to a RB 5 yards behind the LOS.
I remember reading some article years ago that stated QB sneaks on the 4th and 1 or less were a ridiculous percentage in the NFL historically. Somewhere like 80 percent or some shite like that.
In practically I just don’t think the shotgun RB dive play makes any sense. The D is stacking the interior and expecting the run. I suppose not enough college teams trust their QB to make the throw otherwise, but I would almost prefer any play over a handoff to a RB 5 yards behind the LOS.
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:40 pm to ZIGG
I feel like I've seen it a lot more this year. It really makes no sense to me. If you're under center you get that initial push from the o-line and get your forward progress. If you run it out of the shotgun, everybody has time to come up and fill gaps.
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:41 pm to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
If the only time you put the QB under center is to sneak, someone is bound to notice that fact.
This cost LSU a TD vs Auburn. In the opener, LSU used a quick screen to Terrance Marshall on the goal line to score a TD. On the play, Burrow received the snap from under center.
Fast forward to the Auburn game. LSU had not gone back under center except for maybe a short yardage QB sneak or two but never again on the goal line. The play is already on film though. They tried to do it on 4th down against Auburn on the goal line & it fails because Auburn saw it coming from a mile away. Auburn had saw the play & formation on film so they were ready for it.
quote:
In other words, you're telegraphing the play.
A QB sneak, yeah. Not with a run call because no matter the formation, the defense will not know which gap the run is designed to go to.
This post was edited on 1/1/20 at 5:44 pm
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:42 pm to Billy Mays
quote:
4th and 1
I would love to know what the success ratio is for runs up the middle on 4th and 1. It just seems like they are not that successful as of late...
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:42 pm to ZIGG
I think there’s a lot of truth to that. Some of them do things that people with only a vague understanding of the game can point out as foolish. I still see coaches punting the ball with 4th and short at midfield in high scoring games.
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:47 pm to beaverfever
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/1/20 at 5:47 pm
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:51 pm to usc6158
Oregon just took a knee from the Shotgun. So....
Posted on 1/1/20 at 5:58 pm to usc6158
The play I mentioned above is broken down in this video my Matt Wyatt. He also mentions Auburn being prepared because the formation & prior use of the play, tipped off what LSU was going to do. (11:47 mark)
Auburn vs LSU Breakdown
The play was originally run in the opener vs Georgia Southern. You can see the play at the 3:32 mark of this highlight video.
LSU vs Georgia Southern Highlights
Auburn vs LSU Breakdown
The play was originally run in the opener vs Georgia Southern. You can see the play at the 3:32 mark of this highlight video.
LSU vs Georgia Southern Highlights
Posted on 1/1/20 at 6:06 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
It's utterly stupid to attempt. Dives are quick hitting run plays better designed to be done from under center. By doing it from shotgun/pistol, it allows more time for defensive linemen to penetrate & LBs to react
PREACH.
Dumb. Just dumb.
Snap the ball backwards 5 yards to gain a foot.
This post was edited on 1/1/20 at 6:07 pm
Posted on 1/1/20 at 6:15 pm to Billy Mays
The shotgun is such a horrible formation. Even in long yardage situations, the deeper the QB is the easier the angle for speed rushers on the edge.
But I lose my shite every time I see Bama in the gun in short yardage or goal line situations.
But I lose my shite every time I see Bama in the gun in short yardage or goal line situations.
Posted on 1/1/20 at 6:22 pm to Billy Mays
quote:
Shotgun Dives on 4th and 1 in College Football
It's beyond stupid.
in 2007, when Missouri was #1 and playing in Big12 title game, they had the ball 2 times in 2st half at the 1 yard line, went 7 yards deep in shotgun, no RB, and had Chase Daniel run up the gut. Stopped him on 2/3 runs the first time, they kicked FG. Stopped him once or 2 times on 2nd drive at the 1, and kicked a fg.
So instead of going into half up 2 scores, they need a TD at the whistle, and 2 pt'r to tie the game at half. Such a huge momentum loser.
Dumbest set of downs ever. All OU Players did, was rush the QB, they knew with everyone tight and no rb, it was a qb run.
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