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Posted on 7/3/23 at 8:18 pm to Fishing Fanatic
quote:quote:
Between the harder throwing pitchers and what I’d imagine are quicker pop times for catchers, I’d be curious to see any data available comparing the times required to steal a base on average in today’s game versus when Ricky was creating havoc
Harder throwing pitchers ?
Part of the belief here is a result of changing technology and how or specifically where they measure speed. When they first started measuring speed they did it near the plate or at the plate. Now they measure it as the ball is released. There is about a 10% decrease in speed from the mound to the plate.
Bob Feller threw a pitch threw a device the Army set up to measure his velocity at the plate. It was measured at 98.6. Measured at his release point, that would have easily topped 105 mph. Probably higher.
Here is what he was throwing through.
Posted on 7/3/23 at 8:19 pm to 257WBY
quote:
Ricky also stole home four times in his career.
Ty Cobb stole home 8 times in one season (1912)
Posted on 7/3/23 at 8:20 pm to Fishing Fanatic
quote:
Plus Rickey was a defensive liability with a rag arm.
He played left field. As odd as it sounds, that is usually where the weakest defensive outfielder ends up, definitely where the weakest arm ends up.
Posted on 7/3/23 at 8:23 pm to mdomingue
quote:
He played left field. As odd as it sounds, that is usually where the weakest defensive outfielder ends up
Actually it makes sense that the weakest arm is in LF.
RF needs cannon to keep runners from going 1st to 3rd.
LF has the least responsibility regarding keeping runners in check.
Posted on 7/3/23 at 8:24 pm to mdomingue
quote:
Bob Feller threw a pitch threw a device the Army set up to measure his velocity at the plate. It was measured at 98.6. Measured at his release point, that would have easily topped 105 mph. Probably higher.
Prior to that, there is a video of Feller throwing a pitch vs a motorcycle traveling at 86 mph.
Feller gave him at 10 foot head start
This post was edited on 7/3/23 at 8:29 pm
Posted on 7/3/23 at 8:34 pm to SportsGuyNOLA
quote:quote:
Rickey Henderson would be unstoppable under Baseballs new rules.
***Prepare to have your mind completely blown
Ty Cobb playing under baseball’s new rules
The guy, in terms of stealing bases specifically, I would like to see is Honus Wagner. I think he had something like a 96% success rate for steals. Though I know the record-keeping was not fantastic back then so perhaps the caught stealing numbers were not accurate. The Flying Dutchman
Posted on 7/3/23 at 9:27 pm to InkStainedWretch
quote:
I’d still take Rickey with the first pick.
Wouldn’t be my first, but I’m putting him in my starting 9 if I could make a fantasy team to go win a game. Since WWII and the integration of the game, Rickey is 7 all time in WAR and 5th excluded known steroid users. He is in the running for greatest player of the modern era.
But more than that, my all time team is going to have 8 guys that can slug. I want in that mix the guy who stole bases better than anyone to ever play the game to manufacture offense. Peak Rickey was just a unicorn of an offensive player. No one really compares to his skill set.
Posted on 7/3/23 at 10:20 pm to mdomingue
Honus Wagner would also hit 500 or 600 homers in today’s game. Incredibly powerful guy, he actually trained in a primitive fashion in the offseason. He looked heavy set but he wasn’t in the least, he was all chest.
Posted on 7/3/23 at 10:31 pm to InkStainedWretch
quote:
Honus Wagner would also hit 500 or 600 homers in today’s game.
Up from 101
Posted on 7/3/23 at 10:35 pm to Fishing Fanatic
I got a bud that thinks Rickey was on the juice
Posted on 7/3/23 at 10:39 pm to Fishing Fanatic
quote:
Harder throwing pitchers ? You act like pitchers in the 70s/80s/90s had 80mph fastballs. You think that catchers today are more skilled at gunning down runners than Bench, Pudge, and Santiago? Rickey Henderson retired after the 2003 season, not the 1933 season. The advantages I listed in the OP dwarf any miniscule additional difficulty created by the average pitcher today allegedly throwing slightly hard than 30 years ago.
Simmer down fella. No need to melt over MuH 70s golden era
Posted on 7/4/23 at 12:40 am to lsu xman
quote:
I got a bud that thinks Rickey was on the juice
I’m sure he took something at some point. He was on a team with canseco and McGuire after all.
Obviously just my opinion, but I don’t think he juiced during his peak. He juiced, it was to eek out the last 4-5 seasons of his career.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 10:03 am to MoarKilometers
Mike Trout and Shoehi Otani would hit 101 home runs, maybe, in that era.
I take it you aren’t familiar with baseball history. Back in those days, unless the ball was hit into the stands … and sometimes even if it was, folks were more polite and often would throw them back … they would literally use one, ONE, baseball for an entire game. Batters had zero say in the matter. And pitchers were allowed under the rules to frick that baseball up with all kinds of caca … tobacco juice, rosin, their own concoctions or plain old spit.
Let today’s sluggers try to hit against those soggy, blackened, misshapen pieces of horsehide and yarn and see what their home run totals are.
I stand by my statement. Playing with modern training methods and hitting against clean, tight, somewhat juiced modern baseballs used at the rate of 90 to 120 per game, and playing in smaller parks (Wagner’s home field for most of his career was 462 to dead CF), Honus Wagner would hit 500 or 600 home runs.
Ty Cobb would probably hit 350 or so just from hard contact and circle the bases bitching about it.
I take it you aren’t familiar with baseball history. Back in those days, unless the ball was hit into the stands … and sometimes even if it was, folks were more polite and often would throw them back … they would literally use one, ONE, baseball for an entire game. Batters had zero say in the matter. And pitchers were allowed under the rules to frick that baseball up with all kinds of caca … tobacco juice, rosin, their own concoctions or plain old spit.
Let today’s sluggers try to hit against those soggy, blackened, misshapen pieces of horsehide and yarn and see what their home run totals are.
I stand by my statement. Playing with modern training methods and hitting against clean, tight, somewhat juiced modern baseballs used at the rate of 90 to 120 per game, and playing in smaller parks (Wagner’s home field for most of his career was 462 to dead CF), Honus Wagner would hit 500 or 600 home runs.
Ty Cobb would probably hit 350 or so just from hard contact and circle the bases bitching about it.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 10:11 am to Jax Teller
He’s one of those hall of famers that avoided the ped scandals
Posted on 7/4/23 at 1:06 pm to Fishing Fanatic
How about we slow down on the Ricky Henderson being the #1 pick to start an all-time team.
He’s 59th all-time in OBP. Who cares if he can get to 3rd easily when you have 15 guys who got on base easier who could bat others in and hit tons more on total bases which equates to more overall runs scored.
Just on the BATTER’s side you gotta contend with these guys in no particular order
Ted Williams
Stan Musial
Babe Ruth
Will Clark
Lou Gehrig
Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Jimmy Foxx
Alex Rodriquez
He’s 59th all-time in OBP. Who cares if he can get to 3rd easily when you have 15 guys who got on base easier who could bat others in and hit tons more on total bases which equates to more overall runs scored.
Just on the BATTER’s side you gotta contend with these guys in no particular order
Ted Williams
Stan Musial
Babe Ruth
Will Clark
Lou Gehrig
Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Jimmy Foxx
Alex Rodriquez
This post was edited on 7/4/23 at 1:07 pm
Posted on 7/4/23 at 1:21 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
How about we slow down on the Ricky Henderson being the #1 pick to start an all-time team.
He’s 59th all-time in OBP. Who cares if he can get to 3rd easily when you have 15 guys who got on base easier who could bat others in and hit tons more on total bases which equates to more overall runs scored.
Just on the BATTER’s side you gotta contend with these guys in no particular order
Ted Williams
Stan Musial
Babe Ruth
Will Clark
Lou Gehrig
Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Jimmy Foxx
Alex Rodriquez
One of these things is not like the others.
Will Clark ?
That might be the first time that Will Clark was ever used in the same sentence as Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Willy Mays & Lou Gehrig.
But I do agree that there is a long list of guys that I would draft before Henderson.
Henderson would be impossible to throw out under todays rules, but was a liability on defense.
I would throw Griffey Jr on that list as well.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 1:30 pm to theunknownknight
I didn’t say that Rickey would or should be on everyone’s all-time team, never did or never would use those words.
What I specifically said is that if I … me, myself, to the exclusion of everyone else on the planet … could choose a team of any players from history for my (emphasis again on that word) personal team to go to war with, he’d be my pick because he could beat you so many ways.
And again, when choosing said team, I would not limit myself to the GOATs at each position. There’s no fun in that.
I’ll also repeat what I said about catcher. Bench is without a shadow of a doubt the GOAT. I’d pick Yogi for my personal team.
What I specifically said is that if I … me, myself, to the exclusion of everyone else on the planet … could choose a team of any players from history for my (emphasis again on that word) personal team to go to war with, he’d be my pick because he could beat you so many ways.
And again, when choosing said team, I would not limit myself to the GOATs at each position. There’s no fun in that.
I’ll also repeat what I said about catcher. Bench is without a shadow of a doubt the GOAT. I’d pick Yogi for my personal team.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 1:48 pm to MoarKilometers
quote:quote:
Honus Wagner would also hit 500 or 600 homers in today’s game.
Up from 101
He played his entire career in the dead ball era and played in cavernous ballparks. I don't know if he would have hit 500 HRs but I suspect he would have been close.
He was top 10 in HRs for 10 of his 20 seasons.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 1:55 pm to mdomingue
Most people have no idea the cavernous dimensions of some of those old parks.
Along with being in the dead ball era.
It makes Babe Ruth's accomplishments even more mind boggling.
Yeah, Yankee Stadium had a short RF porch if you hit it down the line, but CF/RF were graveyards.
And half of his games were on the road.
Now players play in band boxes with juiced balls and bats that are light as a feather.
Babe Ruth used the heaviest bat in mlb history.
Along with being in the dead ball era.
It makes Babe Ruth's accomplishments even more mind boggling.
Yeah, Yankee Stadium had a short RF porch if you hit it down the line, but CF/RF were graveyards.
And half of his games were on the road.
Now players play in band boxes with juiced balls and bats that are light as a feather.
Babe Ruth used the heaviest bat in mlb history.
This post was edited on 7/4/23 at 2:01 pm
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