re: One question about Penn St. penalties that I haven't heard asked...

You're just woefully uninformed. The cover-up involved the 4 guys at the top who have been punished or are dead.

But the failure to do anything involved many, many other people at the program. A large number of people turned a blind eye to child rape. The place turned into a cult.

When that happens, when children are raped, football doesn't matter any more. Understand? Football is unimportant. You do what you have to do to fix the problem.

At this point, who cares about football? Children were raped, a lot of people knew, and no one did anything. That has to be corrected and when you're dealing with something like this you can't worry about something as trivial as football.

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How? How do you punish Carroll? Bush? If you don't punish the program than all these programs have to do is pay a player, find out that the NCAA is looking into them, let go the offender, repeat.

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Glad you asked. Is it not the compliance officers job to ensure compliance? If a coach doesn't they get suspended. Happens a second time? Your arse is no longer the coach, have fun finding a job. And if the school makes a habit of hiring cheating coaches, sounds like there should be some staff firings. Until everyone gets that nobody is fricking around with cheating and allowing shite like Sandusky's retarded acts to happen, the NCAA should take the lead and mandate changes such as these instead of allow it to run rampant and then punish a large group of non-involved people.

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Also, to the football first culture argumant, that doesn't hold water to me. The fans weren't in the stadium to watch a child get raped. Football and raping children are 1000% not related at all.

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Wrong. Sandusky used his position to lure unsuspecting children and then raped them. He used his position in the community, the university. He brought these kids to bowl games, gave them gear, brought them in the locker room and to practice and then raped them. the football program and molesting absolutely are related.

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what does this have to do with kids playing now and in the near future that wanted to go to PSU and now can't

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Very wrong. Who said they can't go to PSU?? If they want to go there they still can, they just can't play in a college bowl game. They can still go there and play under a coach that coached Tom Brady and won multiple super bowls and has TONS of connections in the NFL. But yeah poor kids.

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Very wrong. Who said they can't go to PSU?? If they want to go there they still can, they just can't play in a college bowl game. They can still go there and play under a coach that coached Tom Brady and won multiple super bowls and has TONS of connections in the NFL. But yeah poor kids

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Don't forget getting a degree from a great school for free! This is what Emmertt was talking about. Players are still getting an education but the OP is more worried about their football future.

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Glad you asked. Is it not the compliance officers job to ensure compliance? If a coach doesn't they get suspended. Happens a second time? Your arse is no longer the coach, have fun finding a job. And if the school makes a habit of hiring cheating coaches, sounds like there should be some staff firings. Until everyone gets that nobody is fricking around with cheating and allowing shite like Sandusky's retarded acts to happen, the NCAA should take the lead and mandate changes such as these instead of allow it to run rampant and then punish a large group of non-involved people.

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If things were done this way there would be a rotating 2-year position at Bama where a booster dropped enormous sums of cash on players. He would leave, the players would graduate, and no one at Bama would be punished.

The simple fact of the matter is that when members of a group misbehave while in performance of their duties as part of that group, the group as a whole must be punished to prevent scape-goating. The current players came to be a part of the tradition, and in most cases the benefit from it. After all, if the entire Penn State team had gone to Western Michigan instead do you think they'd have the fan support? No, of course not. When you become part of a group, you are accepting the tradition, both good and bad. Similarly they must accept the punishment that falls on the group. But in this case they have the option to leave the group and avoid that punishment. I don't see the problem.

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If things were done this way there would be a rotating 2-year position at Bama where a booster dropped enormous sums of cash on players. He would leave, the players would graduate, and no one at Bama would be punished.

The simple fact of the matter is that when members of a group misbehave while in performance of their duties as part of that group, the group as a whole must be punished to prevent scape-goating. The current players came to be a part of the tradition, and in most cases the benefit from it. After all, if the entire Penn State team had gone to Western Michigan instead do you think they'd have the fan support? No, of course not. When you become part of a group, you are accepting the tradition, both good and bad. Similarly they must accept the punishment that falls on the group. But in this case they have the option to leave the group and avoid that punishment. I don't see the problem.

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Well put.

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by nearly ending the football program

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What are they ending? They are not going to a few bowl games. That's it. How are the players punished?

Yes, P&G, SANDUSKY used his position to do that. Not the football program.

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If things were done this way there would be a rotating 2-year position at Bama where a booster dropped enormous sums of cash on players. He would leave, the players would graduate, and no one at Bama would be punished.

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Then extend punishments to include benefits from cheating boosters. It is not a hard concept to wrap your head around.

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The simple fact of the matter is that when members of a group misbehave while in performance of their duties as part of that group, the group as a whole must be punished to prevent scape-goating. The current players came to be a part of the tradition, and in most cases the benefit from it. After all, if the entire Penn State team had gone to Western Michigan instead do you think they'd have the fan support? No, of course not. When you become part of a group, you are accepting the tradition, both good and bad. Similarly they must accept the punishment that falls on the group. But in this case they have the option to leave the group and avoid that punishment. I don't see the problem.

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Who could use the new coaches, players, or fans as a scape-goat? Mass punishment is, in most cases, a lfawed concept. You flog the hell out of those that have done wrong, and promote the acts of those who have not. And as far as tradition goes, it was not a tradition to gang up in a shower and use a small child. The tradition was to do things right regardless of the situation, and sadly, the creators of that tradition did not live up to the standards they set. However, they did still help build MANY, MANY good young men through their teachings. (Not Sandusky, of course.)

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on January 11, 2012, former PSU linebacker Brandon Short cited two independent sources that saw Jerry Sandusky sitting in President Graham Spanier’s luxury box during Joe Paterno’s final game as a head coach at Beaver Stadium on October 29, 2011. A number of PSU Board of Trustee members sat alongside Sandusky in this suite.

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shite like this is why you punish everybody!

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What are they ending? They are not going to a few bowl games. That's it. How are the players punished?

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NEARLY ending. Penn State agreed to the sanctions to avoid a four year suspension of football operations, if I read the ESPN ticker correctly. That doesn't matter though. This is a decision/situation that these players shouldn't have to deal with because they were caused by FORMER employees. What is this teaching them?