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Started By
Message
re: Michigan NOA draft from NCAA cites new coach Moore as violator of rules
Posted on 8/6/24 at 2:55 pm to Gen Patton
Posted on 8/6/24 at 2:55 pm to Gen Patton
quote:
He was doing it for CMU not for Michigan, he did scouting on the side while employed at UM (he only made $55K at UM) and was asked to do it by a friend that particular game. Really a nothing burger and puts CMU in the crosshairs that particular game.
He was doing what exactly?
1
Posted on 8/6/24 at 2:58 pm to Chair45
quote:
buddy, rules rarely "allow" for something to occur. is Ryan Day allowed to wear a black hat during football games? show me the rule where it allows that
are we allowed to take selfies at a CFB game? is Kirby Smart allowed to wear a visor at every game?
unless there are rules which explicitly and clearly state that employees are prohibited from obtaining and using video footage by 3rd party vendors, the rules don't prohibit anything that UM may have benefited from
BTW, we've discussed Conor Stalions' story before. he's a diehard fan who got accepted to UM, but chose to go to the Naval Academy in an attempt to teach him life lessons which would benefit his aspirations at UM down the road. His family has money. he wrote a freaking 600 page manifesto about becoming the UM coach one day
he's one of those crazy/genius guys who you'd maybe want to work with, but not get too close to. but he did nothing illegal or against the rules, as far as everything that's been reported
All great points ie loopholes
Also I'm starting to get the feeling that all the salacious stuff reported on this situation is either fake news or completely misinterpreted in a light unfavorable towards Michigan just according to what I know about this rule and how Stalions operates because it appears he had a scouting side hustle outside of his Michigan gig
Posted on 8/6/24 at 2:59 pm to More beer please
quote:
He was doing what exactly?
Scouting for CMU
Posted on 8/6/24 at 3:05 pm to Gen Patton
quote:
how Stalions operates because it appears he had a scouting side hustle outside of his Michigan gig
yeah, i think he worked for the marines also, and was noted to be a really good code-breaker who could "exploit vulnerabilities in the enemy" due to his skillset. he transferred a lot of those same skills at UM
Posted on 8/6/24 at 3:10 pm to Gen Patton
Scouting CMU at CMU? 
It just so happens that they are playing Michigan St?
It just so happens that they are playing Michigan St?
Posted on 8/6/24 at 3:11 pm to More beer please
quote:
Scouting CMU at CMU?
It just so happens that they are playing Michigan St?
Not everything's a conspiracy theory bro
Posted on 8/6/24 at 3:15 pm to Gen Patton
If the fake sunglasses and mustache fit...
Sidenote- ya boy Chair45's post history is scary
Sidenote- ya boy Chair45's post history is scary
Posted on 8/6/24 at 3:20 pm to Chair45
quote:
buddy, rules rarely "allow" for something to occur. is Ryan Day allowed to wear a black hat during football games? show me the rule where it allows that
are we allowed to take selfies at a CFB game? is Kirby Smart allowed to wear a visor at every game?
unless there are rules which explicitly and clearly state that employees are prohibited from obtaining and using video footage by 3rd party vendors, the rules don't prohibit anything that UM may have benefited from
it seems the NCAA thinks that paying 3rd parties to steel signs violates that rule
quote:
“The NCAA's draft obtained by ESPN states that investigators used ticket information, film, photographs and interviews to determined that Stalions had impermissibly scouted at least 13 future Michigan opponents on at least 58 occasions between 2021 and 2023. He directed others to scout some opponents multiple times — including one team that they scouted seven different times in 2022, according to the draft,
quote:
The use of technology to scout opponents is also prohibited by the NCAA rulebook which states: "Any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signals given by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel is prohibited.
This post was edited on 8/6/24 at 3:24 pm
Posted on 8/6/24 at 3:33 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
it seems the NCAA thinks that paying 3rd parties to steel signs violates that rule
quote:
“The NCAA's draft obtained by ESPN states that investigators used ticket information, film, photographs and interviews to determined that Stalions had impermissibly scouted at least 13 future Michigan opponents on at least 58 occasions between 2021 and 2023. He directed others to scout some opponents multiple times — including one team that they scouted seven different times in 2022, according to the draft,
quote:
The use of technology to scout opponents is also prohibited by the NCAA rulebook which states: "Any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signals given by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel is prohibited.
And MGOBlog thinks that your and the NCAA's purported current interpretation of the rule is illogical and total BS but I'll let Chair45 speak for himself in response
Posted on 8/6/24 at 3:35 pm to Gen Patton
quote:
And MGOBlog thinks that your and the NCAA's purported current interpretation of the rule is illogical and total BS
The people who wrote the rule have an incorrect interpretation of their own rule?
Posted on 8/6/24 at 3:49 pm to More beer please
quote:
Then, in August 2013, the NCAA changed the rule and prohibited off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) for all sports but balanced that by completely discarding the prohibition against paying for scouting. In doing so, it published the following rationale:
In the interest of simplicity and consistency, it is appropriate for one rule regarding scouting to apply to all sports. In most cases, video of future opponents is readily available either through institutional exchange, subscription to a recording/dubbing service or internet sites accessible to the general public.
There is only one reasonable interpretation of what happened in August 2013 when the rule was changed: schools could pay for scouting services for football before the rule changed and can still do so now (the rule hasn’t been amended since). It would make absolutely no sense to repeal the rule that banned payment for scouting for most non-football sports as a way of banning payment for scouting for football. The explicit rationale for the rule change also wouldn’t make sense. Accordingly, schools can pay third parties to scout opponents.
Let me say this in a different way: there is only ambiguity in 11.6.1 if you’re not convinced by its text that it only applies to school employees. And the legislative history of the rule makes clear that you should be convinced of that. As seen in 11.6.1 prior to August 2013, the NCAA knew what to say to ban third-party scouting. And, rather than applying that to football, the NCAA did away with that ban for all sports.
The Rule Against Hiring Third Parties to Scout & Record Opponents in Person to Steal Signs
You can steal signs. You can hire third parties to scout opponents in person. You can record opponents’ signals if you’re not on a football field playing against them. There is no rule suggesting that combining these things makes them a collective rules violation.
LINK
Posted on 8/6/24 at 4:04 pm to Gen Patton
quote:
MGOBlog thinks that your and the NCAA's purported current interpretation of the rule is illogical
I am sure they do.
Hugh freeze was innocent too if you asked the right ole miss writers
Posted on 8/6/24 at 4:16 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
Hugh freeze was innocent too if you asked the right ole miss writers
OK stop, we're comparing impermissible benefits in the pre-NIL world to the interpretation of a scouting rule?? WHAT?? This is like Spy Gate and Deflate Gate all over again
Posted on 8/6/24 at 4:19 pm to Gen Patton
quote:
we're comparing impermissible benefits in the pre-NIL world to the interpretation of a scouting rule
Yeah it’s pretty ridiculous to compare because ole miss did nothing their competition wasn’t. Doubt Michigan can say the same
Posted on 8/6/24 at 4:24 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
Yeah it’s pretty ridiculous to compare because ole miss did nothing their competition wasn’t.
I honestly didn't really care, Ole Miss was just GOOD during that time. I live in a glass house they just brought it on the field week in and out.
quote:
Doubt Michigan can say the same
If you don't think schools outsource their scouting like normal college football programs do and have done, then I don't know what else to tell you. It's mind-blowing that you don't think schools do this if that's what you're implying.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 4:27 pm to Gen Patton
quote:
If you don't think schools outsource their scouting like normal college football programs do and have done, then I don't know what else to tell you. It's mind-blowing that you don't think schools do this if that's what you're implying.
It wouldn’t surprise me but Michigan is the only one caught doing it
Posted on 8/6/24 at 4:28 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
It wouldn’t surprise me but Michigan is the only one caught doing it
That's all you got? And it's totally legal too!
Posted on 8/6/24 at 4:43 pm to More beer please
quote:
The people who wrote the rule have an incorrect interpretation of their own rule?
the people who wrote the rule should have been more elaborate and thorough while creating the rule.
as it's written right now, nowhere does it state that a university's employee is prohibited from acquiring or using footage that was recorded by a 3rd party vendor.
that's all i'm stating. that's not debatable. if the NCAA wanted to prohibit that, they should have written that or included a corollary in the rulebook to account for that
Posted on 8/6/24 at 5:22 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
The rule also prohibits an institution from “employing or paying the expenses of someone else, including professional scouting services, to scout the opponent.”
Full Disclosure: not a UM or OSU fan here
I honestly don't believe that's how the rule's supposed to be interpreted especially when you look at the legislative history and rule of reason. If that's the case, then how can programs scout opponents and prepare for the upcoming games? I just don't buy that, if they wanted to eliminate third party vendors and outsourcing from the equation they should have either written it in the rule or included a corollary committee note with the rule as they promulgated it. I'll let Chair45 respond to this though.
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