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Started By
Message
re: Luka Doncic Narrative
Posted on 11/17/22 at 11:26 am to landrywasbeast30
Posted on 11/17/22 at 11:26 am to landrywasbeast30
Lebron, Kobe, GIannis are all guys that have 35+ Usage rates in a season's playoffs.
Lebron, Kobe, & Giannis have 10 titles combined.
None of those overlapped.
Sure, just because hasn't been done doesn't mean it can't, but the odds are against you, and you'll likely have a better chance if you're just a tad more balanced.
It doesn't really matter ultimately what Dallas does, this team as it stands isn't good enough to win a title whether Luka keeps playing as is or they lower his usage.
Lebron, Kobe, & Giannis have 10 titles combined.
None of those overlapped.
Sure, just because hasn't been done doesn't mean it can't, but the odds are against you, and you'll likely have a better chance if you're just a tad more balanced.
It doesn't really matter ultimately what Dallas does, this team as it stands isn't good enough to win a title whether Luka keeps playing as is or they lower his usage.
0
Posted on 11/17/22 at 11:28 am to brmark70816
quote:Right, Harden was 25 before he won a playoff series as the lead guy/best player on his team.
Doncic is 23. Harden was 23 his first season with the Rockets..
Posted on 11/17/22 at 11:32 am to shel311
5th year playing grown men professional players. Luka did it in his 4th year. Luka being from Europe enabled him to Play professionally earlier.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 11:33 am to Boomshockalocka
quote:Exactly
5th year playing grown men professional players. Luka did it in his 4th year. Luka being from Europe enabled him to Play professionally earlier.
LOL at Boom using that as a point against Luka
Luka went to the WCF at 22. Harden didn't lead a team to a single playoff series win until he was 25.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 11:35 am to Frac the world
quote:
Two words
White European
The media treats Joker the same. They HATE that two of the best bball players in the world are white Europeans. It’s that simple.
I don't remember this being the case for Dirk
Posted on 11/17/22 at 11:36 am to Boomshockalocka
I have no idea why they signed him to that deal. I don't understand what film they were watching to think he'd still be worth bringing in at this stage for anything more than a 1 year vet min.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 11:37 am to shel311
It is not a apples to apples comparison bc Luka has already been playing grown men professionals for many years at age 22 bc he is from
Europe. Other guys could have been pros at age 17 or whatever but couldn’t because they are American. So not apples to apples. And beating CP in the playoffs has never been a problem for harden at any age. So Luka doesn’t get extra credit for beating up in crissy to get to WCF.
Europe. Other guys could have been pros at age 17 or whatever but couldn’t because they are American. So not apples to apples. And beating CP in the playoffs has never been a problem for harden at any age. So Luka doesn’t get extra credit for beating up in crissy to get to WCF.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 11:41 am to Boomshockalocka
quote:
Also wasted money on javale who is not even playing. Really bad personnel decisions lately.
That was Kidd. He wanted Javale. Mavs have fricked up everything after drafting Luka and Brunson. Bane wanted to play for the Mavs and they didn’t even scout him even though he was right down the road.
It all comes down to Cuban. He got lucky buying a team with Dirk. Had to be talked into trading for Luka. He has failed both of those guys so far.
He also decided not to draft Giannis when his people were telling him to do it.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 11:43 am to 504Voodoo
quote:
Agreed. To this day, heliocentric basketball formula can work great on a regular season level, but it has not been able to get a team out of a conference finals. Both the likes of Luka and Harden all looked worn down by the time they reached the conference finals. And at that point, you are likely facing a top-end defense which is best equipped to guard an offense based around one player.
My point is, even with his high usage, it hasn’t stopped guys playing with Luka from getting up shots. So I don’t understand why if these ok players can get up shots playing with him, a star couldn’t. It doesn’t make sense.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 11:46 am to Boomshockalocka
Gosh this is a stretch even for Hardwn
It’s like his career in OKC or at ASU didn’t happen
It’s like his career in OKC or at ASU didn’t happen
Posted on 11/17/22 at 11:48 am to Sterling Archer
quote:
I don't remember this being the case for Dirk
Is this a joke? Dirk was called a soft playoff choker til he won the championship. Dirk was carrying trash rosters to 50 wins every year, shoulda won 06 with a bad roster. Dirk always performed on the biggest stages, and the media called him out every year while his teammates let him down.
Only people who really were paying attention understood how great Dirk was and how stupid those labels were. The narrative was very much Dirk couldn’t win.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 11:53 am to landrywasbeast30
quote:
It all comes down to Cuban. He got lucky buying a team with Dirk. Had to be talked into trading for Luka. He has failed both of those guys so far.
It's mind numbing...
Posted on 11/17/22 at 12:05 pm to DMagic
Because Luka was an early developer and playing grown men professionally at a young age, it is easy to surmise that at 22 he has less room for improvement than a 22 year old who has been playing HS and college kids and is just now growing accustomed to playing pros at the highest level. That’s why age comparisons with Luk are not apples to apples. And tbh Luka has not improved from Year 1 to 4 like most guys do. His efficiency scoring is not really going Up the way you would expect it to. His second year was statistically better than both his 3 and 4 year. Is it because he already is who he is bc of early development?
Posted on 11/17/22 at 12:08 pm to Frac the world
quote:
The media treats Joker the same. They HATE that two of the best bball players in the world are white Europeans. It’s that simple.
Yes the media hates Jokic
*checks notes*
Oh, he won back to back MVPs… maybe the level of hatred is overstated
Posted on 11/17/22 at 12:10 pm to Boomshockalocka
you’re still on Harden’s jock? how many years has it been since he even played in Houston?
Posted on 11/17/22 at 12:13 pm to Klark Kent
Come on man we are having a good #s based discussion go back wherever you came from
Posted on 11/17/22 at 12:27 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:It's not just about "getting up shots."
My point is, even with his high usage, it hasn’t stopped guys playing with Luka from getting up shots. So I don’t understand why if these ok players can get up shots playing with him, a star couldn’t. It doesn’t make sense.
Any really good player who would join Luka, if the Mavs played exact as they do now, that player would have to change his entire style of play in a huge way to adapt. The more likely scenario to be successful is to let that player be himself a bit more, and let Luka not have to control every single thing on every single play, which will make the team tougher to defend when you get in the playoffs and play a team 7 times, thus making adjustments a bit easier than in a regular season setting.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 12:41 pm to shel311
quote:
shel311
I don’t think you watch the Mavs. fricking Spencer Dinwiddie gets his iso game with Luka on the court, and runs the offense when Luka is off. Tim Hardaway has no issue getting the ball and pulling up are driving to the hoop.
Jalen Brunson is a second round pick who just got over $100 million playing with Luka. You just keep repeating the same shite talking heads say, even though it’s just not true. KP got his touches and had his most efficient season playing with Luka.
This idea that no one can play with Luka is media driven narrative from people who just see his usage rate and say “well no one can play with that guy”.
I keep telling you all these guys that have no problem getting touches, running the offense, scoring points, all of whom are not star players, and you just keep saying “yeah but Luka has the ball a lot”.
Posted on 11/17/22 at 2:15 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
That’s why age comparisons with Luk are not apples to apples. And tbh Luka has not improved from Year 1 to 4 like most guys do. His efficiency scoring is not really going Up the way you would expect it to. His second year was statistically better than both his 3 and 4 year. Is it because he already is who he is bc of early development?
You are still comparing a guy at ages 24-30 against another guy at 20-22. Doncic don't have to improve, he's going to be MVP. What more should he be doing?
Posted on 11/17/22 at 2:16 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:I thought the discussion was pairing him up with a really good to elite player, not a Dinwiddie or THJ. But also, both of those guys saw a big drop off in attempts and usage from when they were at their peaks, which is my point.
I don’t think you watch the Mavs. fricking Spencer Dinwiddie gets his iso game with Luka on the court, and runs the offense when Luka is off. Tim Hardaway has no issue getting the ball and pulling up are driving to the hoop.
quote:I've literally given you data, but go off.
You just keep repeating the same shite talking heads say, even though it’s just not true
Brunson, 13 shots per game with Luka. That's a high level role player, not an elite player level. My point still stands, any really good to elite offensive player joining the Mavs would either need to change their game drastically or Luka would need to change his game to meet in the middle. One of those 2 things would HAVE to happen, what you're suggesting is almost literally not possible. A great player could not just come in and play his same game when Luka is finishing almost 40% of his team's posessions, it's just not possible.
quote:Now you're shifting the argument. I never said no one can play with him, I said they would have to change their games in a major way if Luka did not. That much is obvious.
This idea that no one can play with Luka is media driven narrative from people who just see his usage rate and say “well no one can play with that guy”.
quote:It's the other way around. I'm telling you they're getting less touches than they have when they had a more prominent role, with actual data for you, and you're just saying "blah blah blah, they still get to shoot the ball" which means nothing, because you've provided nothing to back anything up other than "just cause"
I keep telling you all these guys that have no problem getting touches, running the offense, scoring points, all of whom are not star players, and you just keep saying “yeah but Luka has the ball a lot”.
Basically everything you're accusing me of, it's exactly what you're doing, I'm giving you data. You're just yelling at the clouds.
This post was edited on 11/17/22 at 2:22 pm
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