re: Jordan is no longer “statistically” the GOAT by a long shot. The GOATs are playing today

Rebounds are way too inflated when it comes to PER. Big men by the nature of their position pull down about 10 rebounds a game, and it's weighted way too heavily.

The fact that Jordan, a 2 guard, is on the list with a bunch of big men with the fact that the formula is weighted against him, is a testament to his greatness.

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Rebounds are way too inflated when it comes to PER. Big men by the nature of their position pull down about 10 rebounds a game, and it's weighted way too heavily.

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Steals, assists, and free throw shooting percentage matter too. That's in favor of Guards. The difference today is that big men can do everything.

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I don’t even like nor do I watch the nba and your list is full of shite.

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My list is a statistical reality. I didn't make it up.

Take your grievances to the NBA.

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so this narrative that offense is so much better or more efficient is objectively false.

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What efficiency stats did you use to make this argument?

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That’s the exact opposite of what the data says.

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You just said:

1. One of the highest scoring decades was the 1980’s. This is true, on par with the recent years.
2. The stats also show over all PER way down in the 80’s compared to today (evident by the list in the OP as well)

So tell me how you can score a ton relatively inefficiently without opening the door to admitting an efficient guard could exploit this imbalance - especially during a time of the weakest set of guards playing in history.

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So they were scoring more but less efficiently (evident by PER being lower)

So they just sucked more but played faster?

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Yes, basically

Pace was higher because they played no defense in the 60s or 70s. It was all just running up and down the court. This kept up through the 80s, but teams got better on defense, leading up to the Pistons in the late 80s. Then we had the Jordan era, and then the Dead Ball era of forced low pace.

The NBA almost died during the Dead Ball Era, which is always funny when people look back at it in hindsight and talk about how great it was.

It was intentionally slow, iso-street ball and a lack of overall talent.

Using one statistic to determine the value of players would be like valuing a company based strictly off of profit margin.

Specifically, it is very difficult to determine intangible value from statistics. Some games matter more than others, some minutes matter more than others.

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Half of the top 25 players ever have played in the last 5 years. What a time to be alive.

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What that should tell you is that the game has more parity currently. And perhaps the metrics being used are skewed toward the way the game is currently played. I don’t think there is any question that since Jordan played, the game has changed, sports medicine has changed, etc.

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It does open up interesting discussions b/c of how bad basketball was in the late 80s through early 00s.

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You keep saying this. It’s an opinion that can be easily challenged.

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How much of a handicap do we have to give players from that era?

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None, it was a different era. The game was different. You can either try to reconcile/handicap the statistics to be comparable, or use the statistics to confirm the fact that the game was played differently.

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Career leaders in PER 1. Embiid 28.5 2. Jokic 28 3. Jordan 27.9 4. James 27.1 5. Anthony Davis 26.9

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Where are you getting that from? Basketball reference shows
Jokic then Jordan in career PER Also only 10 of top 25 are current.


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