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Posted on 2/15/11 at 11:29 am to SouljaBreauxTellEm
Frazier.
Unless someone can convince me that Trevor Berbick, James Smith, Tony Tucker and Michael Spinks (the four fighters that Tyson beat to win the four belts that he eventually lost to Buster Douglas) were great heavyweights, then I'll hold with my view that Mike Tyson was a hugely over-hyped boxer.
Unless someone can convince me that Trevor Berbick, James Smith, Tony Tucker and Michael Spinks (the four fighters that Tyson beat to win the four belts that he eventually lost to Buster Douglas) were great heavyweights, then I'll hold with my view that Mike Tyson was a hugely over-hyped boxer.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 12:25 pm to DallasTiger
I do not beleive Tyson beats Ali. Ali was the best heavyweight boxer maybe ever. You may not have liked him but his skills were unmatched at his size. He would have got in Tyson's head and whipped his arse. George Foreman in his prime would have floored Tyson. The 70s were the hight of heavy weight boxing it has never been that deep in the history of the sport IMO.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 12:33 pm to Roaad
quote:
In his prime, only Tyson could beat Tyson. . .as evidenced by the Buster Douglas fight.
This.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 12:35 pm to DallasTiger
I really can't believe so many people are saying Tyson. Tyson in his prime worked himself into a fit of rage and simply mauled inferior fighters. Who did Tyson ever beat in his career that proves he would have stood up to any of the Golden Agers like Frazier, Ali, or Foreman?
The legend of Tyson is so much more impressive than his accomplishments in the ring. Tyson was more like Liston than Frazier. Not in body type or actual technical style, but in strategy and skill level. They both had immense punching power and would simply terrify lesser opponents. The moment anyone fought back capably, they folded.
Liston's most impressive career accomplishment was twice dominating a Floyd Patterson whose size and style was tailor-made for him. What was Tyson's most impressive career accomplishment? Awesome highlight reels? Destroying Bruce Seldon? Michael Spinks?
If you want to know the difference between Tyson and Frazier, watch Tyson's fight against James "Bonecrusher" Smith. You'll see a frustrated Tyson (in his prime, mind you) unable to really commit to working the body and winning a decision because Smith refused to fight and Tyson kept trying to land KO bombs. The announcers point out that Frazier was a "murderous" body puncher and would have known how to destroy Smith.
Many people in this thread point out that Tyson's problems were mental. Let's say that's true for a minute. Don't you hear people all the time say how important the mental part of boxing is? Tyson never had the mental capacity, poise, or heart to stand up to guys who were mentally tough. Frazier is one of the most mentally tough SOBs ever to step in the ring.
People lacking knowledge of boxing who say Tyson would win based on awesome highlight KOs is just like people who lack baseball knowledge that just look at high home run totals to determine who the best baseball players are. Frazier would dominate and frustrate Tyson as all good boxers who ever fought Tyson did.
The legend of Tyson is so much more impressive than his accomplishments in the ring. Tyson was more like Liston than Frazier. Not in body type or actual technical style, but in strategy and skill level. They both had immense punching power and would simply terrify lesser opponents. The moment anyone fought back capably, they folded.
Liston's most impressive career accomplishment was twice dominating a Floyd Patterson whose size and style was tailor-made for him. What was Tyson's most impressive career accomplishment? Awesome highlight reels? Destroying Bruce Seldon? Michael Spinks?
If you want to know the difference between Tyson and Frazier, watch Tyson's fight against James "Bonecrusher" Smith. You'll see a frustrated Tyson (in his prime, mind you) unable to really commit to working the body and winning a decision because Smith refused to fight and Tyson kept trying to land KO bombs. The announcers point out that Frazier was a "murderous" body puncher and would have known how to destroy Smith.
Many people in this thread point out that Tyson's problems were mental. Let's say that's true for a minute. Don't you hear people all the time say how important the mental part of boxing is? Tyson never had the mental capacity, poise, or heart to stand up to guys who were mentally tough. Frazier is one of the most mentally tough SOBs ever to step in the ring.
People lacking knowledge of boxing who say Tyson would win based on awesome highlight KOs is just like people who lack baseball knowledge that just look at high home run totals to determine who the best baseball players are. Frazier would dominate and frustrate Tyson as all good boxers who ever fought Tyson did.
This post was edited on 2/15/11 at 4:23 pm
Posted on 2/15/11 at 12:36 pm to SouljaBreauxTellEm
tyson could have been the greatest ever had his trainer not died...it was all downhill from there...
I would take a disciplined properly trained tyson over frazier any day of the week
I would take a disciplined properly trained tyson over frazier any day of the week
Posted on 2/15/11 at 12:38 pm to Sophandros
you got it wrong...
everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth
everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth
Posted on 2/15/11 at 12:47 pm to DelU249
Tyson would not have dominated the likes of: George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Ali, Jimmy Young, Earnie Shaver, just to name a few. Ali was out of boxing almost as long as Tyson and still mangaed to come back and win the title and keep it for 3 years. Once again and to me there is no arguing Ali hands down the greatest heavyweight of all time. And Frazier whips Tyson's arse.
This post was edited on 2/15/11 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 2/15/11 at 1:14 pm to DelU249
quote:
Jamohn
Sums up my thought of Frazier/Tyson
quote:
tyson could have been the greatest ever had his trainer not died...it was all downhill from there...
Cus died before Tyson won any world championship (a lot of people don't realize this. They think Tyson was world champion and cruising along, then Cus died and everything fell apart). Tyson won his first championship and then multiple world championships and went undefeated for 5-6 years AFTER Cus died.
Not being able to control/handle success and being the most famous athlete in the world is what caused his downfall.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 2:34 pm to Jamohn
Nice post. Tyson may be the most over-rated heavyweight ever IMO. I don't think he has a signature win in his career. Smokin Joe would have worn Tyson out. Several other heavyweights, Ali, Forman, and others would have beat him too.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 2:40 pm to SouljaBreauxTellEm
20 year old tyson would have laid out fraizer in the first round.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 2:40 pm to TTownTiger
anybody remember the peter mcneely pizza hut commercials
Posted on 2/15/11 at 3:22 pm to dukke v
quote:
When Tyson was at his peak he intimidated all his opponents. He would NOT have done this to Frazier.
agree with that
I think it would have been an epic fight tho... two guys willing to dish it out... of similar size and enormous power
Tyson with Cus in his corner was a scary good fighter - I don't think he could have ever been the kind of guy with a long career because of his inferior height (making him more vulnerable once age decreased his quickness)
But he really was an amazing fighter in his early 20s (pre Don King)
Posted on 2/15/11 at 3:30 pm to TTownTiger
quote:
Cus died before Tyson won any world championship (a lot of people don't realize this. They think Tyson was world champion and cruising along, then Cus died and everything fell apart). Tyson won his first championship and then multiple world championships and went undefeated for 5-6 years AFTER Cus died.
I can't agree with all of that
cus died in 1985... after Tyson was already a heavyweight and well on his way to super-stardom
Tyson won his first heavyweight belt in 1986 and there was a steady deterioration of his fundamentals, his home structure (since Cus had taken him in), and his seriousness about training from fight to fight after Cus died
Posted on 2/15/11 at 3:40 pm to molsusports
quote:
Tyson won his first heavyweight belt in 1986 and there was a steady deterioration of his fundamentals, his home structure (since Cus had taken him in), and his seriousness about training from fight to fight after Cus died
This. Cus made him the fighter he was. Don King and his posse tore him down brick by brick.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 4:02 pm to TigerFanNKaty
damn it someone beat me to the bonecrusher vs tyson fight. tyson came into the heavyweight div. when it was very weak. Frazier fought at the prime of heavyweight boxing and was a freakin beast. Who do you think tyson got his fighting style from? Smoking Joe was a great fighter and would have beat tyson. tyson lost to the guys that were not afraid of him. you think frazier would have been intimidated by tyson i think not.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 4:09 pm to molsusports
quote:
I can't agree with all of that
You may not agree with the third part that I wrote, which is opinion. So it's cool if you don't agree with it. But the part that I wrote that you quoted
quote:
Cus died before Tyson won any world championship (a lot of people don't realize this. They think Tyson was world champion and cruising along, then Cus died and everything fell apart). Tyson won his first championship and then multiple world championships and went undefeated for 5-6 years AFTER Cus died.
is a FACT, not opinion. There is no way you can't agree with all of that.
And anyone who knows anything about boxing knows Mike Tyson's in ring skills started slipping after 1988 (after the Michael Spinks fight). Why? Because he fired long time trainer and Cus D'amato protege', Kevin Rooney.
He did this because all of the people who had hands in his wallet once his fame blew to ridiculous proportions (including don king) thought he could get a better trainer for his money. That's why I say not being able to control the fame, or even more so - the people who came with the fame, cause his in ring downfall. Now this paragraph is opinion, so feel free to disagree with it.
This post was edited on 2/15/11 at 4:11 pm
Posted on 2/15/11 at 4:15 pm to TTownTiger
quote:
Cus died before Tyson won any world championship (a lot of people don't realize this. They think Tyson was world champion and cruising along, then Cus died and everything fell apart). Tyson won his first championship and then multiple world championships and went undefeated for 5-6 years AFTER Cus died.
is a FACT, not opinion. There is no way you can't agree with all of that.
no it's not
cus died in november of 1985 - tyson lost to douglas in feb 1990
that's four years and around 3 months - not 5 or 6 years
quote:
And anyone who knows anything about boxing knows Mike Tyson's in ring skills started slipping after 1988 (after the Michael Spinks fight). Why? Because he fired long time trainer and Cus D'amato protege', Kevin Rooney.
agree with this to some extent tho - although his focus and security/sense of self worth IMO were significantly diminished by the loss of Cus
Posted on 2/15/11 at 4:19 pm to molsusports
quote:
that's four years and around 3 months - not 5 or 6 years
Touché. I was off by 9 months.
Posted on 2/15/11 at 4:20 pm to TTownTiger
ya, and stretching it out to 21 months made it seem like just a "bash mike" post
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