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re: Is lonzo ball a less explosive Michael Carter Williams?
Posted on 11/20/17 at 4:32 pm to ReauxlTide222
Posted on 11/20/17 at 4:32 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:I posted this the other day. Westbrook's 1st season, in which I think he was 1 year older than Lonzo, he was 33% from the field in his first however many games. At that time, in the same amount of games, Ball was at 31%.
But bro, he's always shooting poorly.
Not that big of a difference, and it doesn't signify something he can't ever recover from.
I'm not saying it's nothing to worry about at this very moment, it's a concern. But it doesn't mean he can't ever be a viable NBA shooter. I will say, he'll have to improve before season's end, or then it will absolutely be very worrisome and questions about whether he'll ever shoot well enough will be legit IMO.
2
Posted on 11/20/17 at 4:35 pm to shel311
Is this the same thing as, "Peyton threw more INTs than (insert shite QB) in his rookie year?"
Posted on 11/20/17 at 4:36 pm to shel311
quote:
Not that big of a difference, and it doesn't signify something he can't ever recover from.
but then you look at Jason kidd and realize he was a poor shooter his rookie year, and that lasted throughout his career.
Westbrook has elite athleticism.
Westbrook>Kidd>Ball on the athleticism front
Posted on 11/20/17 at 4:54 pm to Lester Earl
ZO's 8th in the Association in assists, pretty good defender as well, all know Jason Kidd sucked dick from a shooting standpoint his first 17 games, turned out OK as a surefire HOFer #Facts 
Posted on 11/20/17 at 5:01 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
Not any. But I don't think Lakers fans and top brass want the Lakers to be just any team. This kid is supposed to turn this organization into a champion. Now clearly that's a tall task for anyone, so I wouldn't judge him on that.
Yeah I don't recall that being the expectation of the relevant basketball brass for the immediate future relative to the Lakers since they're basically a fledgling team with all those young guys gaining valuable exposure and experience, plus they'll have space and assets to flip for some high-profile FAs next summer. It's evident ZO's made a positive impact on the Lakers due to his work ethic, pass-first mentality and solid defensive play and the Lakers have been competitive in basically all their games thus far. Overachieving according to me, could be an encouraging season proceeding forward.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 5:08 pm to ThePTExperience1969
Lonzo doesn't even have to turn this team into a champion. Him, Ingram and Kuzma just have to develop well and show they're good. If those three guys develop well over the next couple seasons, the Lakers will be a viable destination for players in free agency and trades.
You've got three guys who all look like they could form part of a big three in the coming years. You add a guy like Boogie (if the Pels experiment fails), PG (if he actually wants to go to LA) or Klay (decides he wants to be more of a focal point), the Lakers are suddenly a really solid team.
They just need those three young guys to continue to do what they're doing and to add one player to be a 4-5 seed in a few seasons.
You've got three guys who all look like they could form part of a big three in the coming years. You add a guy like Boogie (if the Pels experiment fails), PG (if he actually wants to go to LA) or Klay (decides he wants to be more of a focal point), the Lakers are suddenly a really solid team.
They just need those three young guys to continue to do what they're doing and to add one player to be a 4-5 seed in a few seasons.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 5:12 pm to ThePTExperience1969
I agree with you that his style is better for this young team as it's going to help THEM grow faster. Almost like a washed up pass first vet PG might do for a young team. I don't mean that as negatively as it sounded.
I just look around the league and Lonzo's pass first mentality doesn't get my juices flowing at all. You know what is pass first? The offensive schemes of most of the really good teams.
Know what else is pretty damn pass happy? Many of the stars around the league who also frick you up by putting the ball through the net.
That's what the league does now. One reason I'm down on Lonzo is I don't think his final form is what you want in 2017 and beyond when looking for a guy to take you to a championship.
I just look around the league and Lonzo's pass first mentality doesn't get my juices flowing at all. You know what is pass first? The offensive schemes of most of the really good teams.
Know what else is pretty damn pass happy? Many of the stars around the league who also frick you up by putting the ball through the net.
That's what the league does now. One reason I'm down on Lonzo is I don't think his final form is what you want in 2017 and beyond when looking for a guy to take you to a championship.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 5:12 pm to ThePTExperience1969
well yea Kidd was really good, albeit overrated. He was never a cornerstone player.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 5:18 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
well yea Kidd was really good, albeit overrated. He was never a cornerstone player.
Phoenix Suns and New Jersey Nets would beg to differ, the whole narrative with Dallas his first stint there as the "Three Js" was simply weird with how everything deteriorated, though to give him credit his rookie season they achieved the largest record improvement in the league considering how atrocious that team was prior EVEN WITH Jim Jackson and Jamal Mashburn.
This post was edited on 11/20/17 at 5:32 pm
Posted on 11/20/17 at 5:23 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
LOL you must've forgotten how atrocious the Dallas Mavericks were before they drafted Kidd with that lottery pick, EVEN WITH Jim Jackson and Jamal Mashburn.
Kidd never won shite with that team. won 36 & 26 games, then got traded in the middle of season 3
Posted on 11/20/17 at 5:24 pm to Lester Earl
Lonzo with the 15th worst PER for a PG in the NBA. Between powerhouse players mario chalmers and tim frazier
Posted on 11/20/17 at 5:30 pm to Lester Earl
quote:Point for Lonzo.
but then you look at Jason kidd and realize he was a poor shooter his rookie year, and that lasted throughout his career.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 6:06 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
Phoenix Suns and New Jersey Nets would beg to differ, t
first of all, nice edit after i brought to your attention that you were wrong
secondly, ln no way am i bashing Kidd as a player. But that is what he was. Poor shooter, average athletically. That relegated him to always being the Robin instead of Batman. Westbrook, he's a Batman player who can carry a team. Kidd's best attribute was making his teammates better, which is why the good teams he played on, he was surrounded by good players.
and lets just put it out there, the Kidd-led Nets won the weakest stretch of eastern conference basketball of my lifetime.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 6:18 pm to shel311
quote:At his peak, Kidd was a 41-44% shooter from the field. Lonzo can barely beat that from the free throw line.
Point for Lonzo.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 6:20 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
first of all, nice edit after i brought to your attention that you were wrong
I jumped the gun on that one though the Mavs' record his rookie season was the largest record turnaround in the Association that season, things shouldn't have transpired as they did to produce that trade but it was what it was.
quote:
That relegated him to always being the Robin instead of Batman.
Couldn't disagree more with that statement but that's your opinion
quote:
the Kidd-led Nets won the weakest stretch of eastern conference basketball of my lifetime.
Yeah, I'm not gonna use that to diminish what Kidd accomplished with a team like the Nets bc people like trashing the East I guess since MJ retired the 2nd time and Shaq left Orlando and quite frankly I'm sick of that bulljive, what happened happened.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 6:27 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Kidd never won shite with that team. won 36 & 26 games, then got traded in the middle of season 3
Tough crowd here huh? That was a 13 win Mavericks team that improved to 36 wins & a few games out of the playoffs. Kidd wasn't traded because he was ineffective ,but because he didn't get along well with the other 2 young players ( Jackson & Mashburn) nor his Coach.
You also left off how Dallas slipped back to pre- Kidd historic bad when they swapped him for Michael Finley Dropped to 24 , 20 & 19 win seasons without Kidd.
You know who improved immediately? Phoenix Suns with Kidd.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 6:28 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:Lonzo Ball is shooting 31.3% from the field. Jason Kidd shot 32.3%(and 13.2% from 3 LOL) during his 1st 17 games when he was I believe 2 years older than Lonzo.
At his peak, Kidd was a 41-44% shooter from the field. Lonzo can barely beat that from the free throw line.
Too bad we didn't have message boards in 1994 so I could bump your JKidd is a bum post 25 years later when he makes the HOF!!!
This post was edited on 11/20/17 at 6:29 pm
Posted on 11/20/17 at 6:31 pm to sugar71
quote:
Tough crowd here huh? That was a 13 win Mavericks team that improved to 36 wins & a few games out of the playoffs.
poster edited his post which then didn't match my response fwiw
Posted on 11/20/17 at 6:32 pm to shel311
Was Kidd labeled a special talent and transcendent talent who would IMMEDIATELY become the face of the Lakers and basically be their savior?
Because he fell way below that in his career.
That type of hype needs to be met with rings as the best player on a team. Did Kidd ever do that? If not, I'd laugh at your bump.
Because he fell way below that in his career.
That type of hype needs to be met with rings as the best player on a team. Did Kidd ever do that? If not, I'd laugh at your bump.
Posted on 11/20/17 at 6:34 pm to Lester Earl
If you want a good laugh at PTE’s takes here’s one where he’s downplaying Antonio Brown’s ability to play WR because he’s small
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