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Posted on 11/16/13 at 3:15 pm to Dixie Tiger
quote:
See the meetings last Spring. She doesn't say John Curtis but her remarks were aimed at the Patriots. You have to be blind not to see it.
There is a difference in her being a part of a majority of Principals who support a split and saing she "hates"John Curtis, which is what you said. Are you still standing by your statement that Griffin "hates" John Curtis. This is, "if you are not for us you hate us." Mighty strong words. I know one thing.....this thread has plenty of posters who have openly expressed their hatred of Griffin or shall I say "a strong dislike." Interesting.
This post was edited on 11/16/13 at 3:17 pm
Posted on 11/16/13 at 3:27 pm to NorthTiger
Simple minded people have a need to demonize a single enemy that they can project all their own fears and failures too.
Same way everything that happens in politics is Obama's fault. Or Bush's fault. "I lost my wife because I cheated on her. THANKS, OBAMA!"
Same way everything that happens in politics is Obama's fault. Or Bush's fault. "I lost my wife because I cheated on her. THANKS, OBAMA!"
This post was edited on 11/16/13 at 3:57 pm
Posted on 11/16/13 at 3:38 pm to NorthTiger
quote:
There is a difference in her being a part of a majority of Principals who support a split and saing she "hates"John Curtis, which is what you said. Are you still standing by your statement that Griffin "hates" John Curtis. This is, "if you are not for us you hate us." Mighty strong words. I know one thing.....this thread has plenty of posters who have openly expressed their hatred of Griffin or shall I say "a strong dislike." Interesting.
This is the OP
quote:
Mrs. Griffin should be commended for proposing
the split playoffs. Other principals supported
her proposal by about a 2 to 1 margin. The split
was long overdue. Non-select schools will
proudly accept their championship trophies.
Most of the ones griping about the split are
the Select schools' supporters who will not
accept the FACT that certain Select schools
abused their right to even be in the LHSAA
by making themselves football factories.
Case in point: How many John Curtis High School
football players actually pay their own tuition?
When Winnfield played JC in the championship
game in 2011, JC had about 90-100 kids dressed
for the game. Yes, some were freshmen but 100
football players in a school with less than 200
boys in grades 9 through 12?
Take your rose-colored glasses off and admit
that Select schools have certain advantages
that do not make a level playing field, even
if they don't outright recruit players.
Posted on 11/16/13 at 4:02 pm to tigerpimpbot
NorthTiger, I stand by my comments.
lsutigers1992, no guilt on the Patriots part. Trust me there is a lot of hatred for the Patriots. It comes with winning.
lsutigers1992, no guilt on the Patriots part. Trust me there is a lot of hatred for the Patriots. It comes with winning.
Posted on 11/16/13 at 5:26 pm to Dixie Tiger
quote:
NorthTiger, I stand by my comments.
I understand that you won't budge from your comments. I simply asked you to somehow show that Jane Griffen hates Curtis. You haven't done that. You can assume that she hates Curtis all you want and stand by that position all you want but that doesn't make it fact. I too think that Curtis has an unfair advantage over small, AA public schools, but don't hate Curtis the school and I respect J. T. Curtis, Jr. the coach. I just believe that when a AA public school goes up against that program their chances are slim and I believe history proves that.
You had a nice little write-up when you correctly summarized the history of the program. In my opinion, you stooped a little low when you started making this personal and started attacking a person.
All of these years, whenever someone criticizes Curtis or Evangel the comeback often used by backers of those two schools is that the person criticizing those two schools either hates those schools or more often they say the criticizer is jealous.
I live in Shreveport and had the same choice any parent with means in this town has. My son was a football athlete. If football was all that mattered I could have sent him to Evangel and had reasonable assurance that he would have had a taste of the playoffs and very possibly a state title. Instead, we sat down and talked about it and decided that he wold go to a local public high school where he played football knowing that making it to the Dome was a dream but a very long shot. He played in 7 playoff games as a starter and our whole family has lifelong memories of his years playing there. He was fortunate to earn All District honors on an All District team that had future NFL players Kiki Mingo and Johnathan Stewart.
I am not jealous of the schools who won titles during my son's playing days and I don't hate those schools. My family and I certainly don't feel like he missed out on anything. Just the opposite. Attending a public school is also a choice.
Posted on 11/16/13 at 8:39 pm to NorthTiger
NorthTiger, My comment was an opinion based off an article that I read last spring and mainly off comments told to me by those at the meeting in March. Since I stand by my comments I was compelled to give you the proof. It took me a while to find the article. Here is the link to the article, LINK
Here is what is in writing, "Winnfield principal Jane Griffin took several shots at John Curtis Christian school.
Griffin’s football team lost to Curtis 33-3 in the December 2011 2A football championship.
“When a school is able to dominate there is something going on,” said Griffin. “It is my 145 pound lineman against their 300 pound division one recruit.”
Subcommittee chair, State Senator Page Cortez R-Lafayette said his committee wanted to deal with facts, not innuendo.
None of the public schools principals in attendance were able to furnish specific “recruiting” violations.
John Curtis headmaster and head football coach J.T. Curtis said his school has nothing for which to apologize. “We do everything we can to be above board,” said Curtis.
“We have nothing to hide.”
Curtis got a stirring recommendation surprisingly from a public school.
“If I had a kid that was good, I would by calling coach Curtis too,” said North Vermilion athletic director and head football coach Tommy Byler."
There is only one innuendo (something is going on) in this article but from those who were at the meeting there were more comments that were borderline slanderous towards the school. I was told the tone of the comments wasn't friendly in nature as well.
This may not be enough to satisfy you but this article and conversations that I had with Curtis administrators is how I formed the opinion that the Winnfield principal hates Curtis. Also when the Lady Patriots softball team played Winnfield in the QuarterFinals in April, the Winnfield fans wore shirts that referenced the public vs private issue. One of the mothers of a Lady Patriot told me a man on the Winnfield side was pretty rude and tried to pick a verbal fight with one of the mothers of a Lady Patriot. Now I'm not saying Winnfield's principal told the fans to act that way but it could be assumed that her comments in March could have stoked the fire a bit. Who knows? So from our side of the fence hopefully you'll see why I and other Patriots feel that Winnfield's principal isn't too fond of the Patriots.
Here are a couple of video links. The first is of Coach JT voicing his opinion and the second is an opinion from a guy covering Prep Sports. Neither video says that Winnfield's principal is calling out the Patriots but both videos mention that Proposal 18 is aimed at John Curtis. Since Winnfield's principal is the main author of Proposal 18 she is going to get most of the fingers pointed towards her. I know the Destrehan and Port Barre principals have a part in this as well.
LINK and LINK
In response to your opinion, I wasn't making this personal or attacking Winnfield's principal. I simply stated an opinion based off an article and a conversation. To me a personal attack would have been me calling the principal names and making slanderous comments about her.
I'm not going to include Evangel because I don't know much about them. I've been associated with JCC since 1981 and I've had to defend our program a lot. I will always give facts with my response about the program. Everything that I've posted except that one opinion has been fact. I don't run from the opportunity to tell people about the Patriots. But if you walked in our shoes you'd understand why we say people are just hating. People want to find reasons why they aren't successful so they try to discount our efforts. To be honest we have the perfect storm to be successful. JCC is located in metropolitan New Orleans so the pool to draw students is bigger. The elementary program starts in the 4th grade. The huddle, cadence and base plays are the same as the varsity. Coach JT only had to answer to Mr. Curtis. There aren't any QB or Booster Clubs to answer to so there isn't any political clutter. Being from north Louisiana you probably have seen this first hand. The quality of coaching is top notch. Now being as successful as JCC has been you might be surprised to learn that Winnfield has better facilities. All JCC has is a weightroom, lockerroom and a practice field.
To your point, small Class 2A teams really can't compete. This can be said of any rural school. But now we'd be getting into city vs rural. Obviously rural schools are going to be at a disadvantage because of population.
I'll admit that the previous system wasn't perfect but this "Every Man is a King" system isn't cutting it. Just wish there was more thought put into this instead of pushing it through.
Here is what is in writing, "Winnfield principal Jane Griffin took several shots at John Curtis Christian school.
Griffin’s football team lost to Curtis 33-3 in the December 2011 2A football championship.
“When a school is able to dominate there is something going on,” said Griffin. “It is my 145 pound lineman against their 300 pound division one recruit.”
Subcommittee chair, State Senator Page Cortez R-Lafayette said his committee wanted to deal with facts, not innuendo.
None of the public schools principals in attendance were able to furnish specific “recruiting” violations.
John Curtis headmaster and head football coach J.T. Curtis said his school has nothing for which to apologize. “We do everything we can to be above board,” said Curtis.
“We have nothing to hide.”
Curtis got a stirring recommendation surprisingly from a public school.
“If I had a kid that was good, I would by calling coach Curtis too,” said North Vermilion athletic director and head football coach Tommy Byler."
There is only one innuendo (something is going on) in this article but from those who were at the meeting there were more comments that were borderline slanderous towards the school. I was told the tone of the comments wasn't friendly in nature as well.
This may not be enough to satisfy you but this article and conversations that I had with Curtis administrators is how I formed the opinion that the Winnfield principal hates Curtis. Also when the Lady Patriots softball team played Winnfield in the QuarterFinals in April, the Winnfield fans wore shirts that referenced the public vs private issue. One of the mothers of a Lady Patriot told me a man on the Winnfield side was pretty rude and tried to pick a verbal fight with one of the mothers of a Lady Patriot. Now I'm not saying Winnfield's principal told the fans to act that way but it could be assumed that her comments in March could have stoked the fire a bit. Who knows? So from our side of the fence hopefully you'll see why I and other Patriots feel that Winnfield's principal isn't too fond of the Patriots.
Here are a couple of video links. The first is of Coach JT voicing his opinion and the second is an opinion from a guy covering Prep Sports. Neither video says that Winnfield's principal is calling out the Patriots but both videos mention that Proposal 18 is aimed at John Curtis. Since Winnfield's principal is the main author of Proposal 18 she is going to get most of the fingers pointed towards her. I know the Destrehan and Port Barre principals have a part in this as well.
LINK and LINK
In response to your opinion, I wasn't making this personal or attacking Winnfield's principal. I simply stated an opinion based off an article and a conversation. To me a personal attack would have been me calling the principal names and making slanderous comments about her.
I'm not going to include Evangel because I don't know much about them. I've been associated with JCC since 1981 and I've had to defend our program a lot. I will always give facts with my response about the program. Everything that I've posted except that one opinion has been fact. I don't run from the opportunity to tell people about the Patriots. But if you walked in our shoes you'd understand why we say people are just hating. People want to find reasons why they aren't successful so they try to discount our efforts. To be honest we have the perfect storm to be successful. JCC is located in metropolitan New Orleans so the pool to draw students is bigger. The elementary program starts in the 4th grade. The huddle, cadence and base plays are the same as the varsity. Coach JT only had to answer to Mr. Curtis. There aren't any QB or Booster Clubs to answer to so there isn't any political clutter. Being from north Louisiana you probably have seen this first hand. The quality of coaching is top notch. Now being as successful as JCC has been you might be surprised to learn that Winnfield has better facilities. All JCC has is a weightroom, lockerroom and a practice field.
To your point, small Class 2A teams really can't compete. This can be said of any rural school. But now we'd be getting into city vs rural. Obviously rural schools are going to be at a disadvantage because of population.
I'll admit that the previous system wasn't perfect but this "Every Man is a King" system isn't cutting it. Just wish there was more thought put into this instead of pushing it through.
Posted on 11/16/13 at 10:31 pm to Dixie Tiger
Tell you what Dixie Tiger. I would like to end this discussion on a postive note. I'll say my piece and you can have the final word.
You have been associated with JC since 1981 and I have been associated with Winnfield closely since a little over a decade more though I haven't lived in Winnfield since 1972. We are obviously both very passionate about the two schools we love. I respect you for that and feel the same about the school I love.
I am very aware of the meager facilities that JC has. I respect JC the coach. I thiink the keys to your success begin with JC, a great coaching staff and the system you described. At least in Winnfield (and most other places) there is a feeder program that runs the same plays/formations that the varsity team has. show me a great high school program and I have to think that program is supported by a strong feeder program. Most people don't know that no high school in Shreveport has a feeder program. No middle school has any connection with any high school here. So, there is no running of the varsity plays at an early age and kids scatter to any number of high schools after middle school so you even lose that group cohesion. If Curtis has the perfect storm, Shreveport has the imperfect storm. High school coaches here start from scratch with their system when they get 9th graders.
I am sorry that you or any or your supporters ran into bad experiences at Winnfield. You know as well as I do that any sports program is going to have bad apples. The people I know that love Winnfield football are very respectful, knowledgeable people who would treat opposing fans with respect. My pet peeve is ignorant fans and/or fans who or are driven by pure emotion. Your fans apprarently ran into a few of those. I would be offended by that behavior myself and if I saw a Winnfield fan doing that I would be embarrassed.
This one sentence you wrote is my ONLY complaint about the public private mess: you wrote: "To be honest we have the perfect storm to be successful. JCC is located in metropolitan New Orleans so the pool to draw students is bigger." The reason I specified small rural public schools is this simple fact. A Class AA public school will have between 125 and 200 boys. A rural public school has to get those kids from whoever lives there. What are the chances of a school in Winn parish having a large number of home grown top quality football players in any given year. My point in an earlier post was that every so often a high number of quality athletes will come along the same year and give a small school an outstanding football team. I very much believe that the "if you build it they will come" principle applies to schools like yours. I don't think you have to recruit. The success of your program is your best marketing tool. I thought the best solution was to have you guys playing in a higher classification because your talent level was closer to what you would expect at a 4A or 5A level. History has shown that public AA schools of late have no chance against you (or most any private school for that matter). That's as simple as I can make my argument.
I also said that since Winnfield has won only one title in the past 50 years I am glad they won it against Curtis. That is meant as a compliment to you. I don't say that out of revenge or anger. I say that becuase I want to say that on that day we beat one of the best football teams in the state. In 2011, I'm not so sure that your team wasn't the best team in the state regardless of class.
I would like to end this on a positive note. Just like you don't want "everyone" to view "all" of Curtis bad, I would ask the same of you. There are a lot of good people associated with Winnfield football.
I am expecting you to have another good playoff run. That is a given in Patriot land. Hopefully Winnfield can continue it's good playoff run in what is truly a rebuilding year.
You have been associated with JC since 1981 and I have been associated with Winnfield closely since a little over a decade more though I haven't lived in Winnfield since 1972. We are obviously both very passionate about the two schools we love. I respect you for that and feel the same about the school I love.
I am very aware of the meager facilities that JC has. I respect JC the coach. I thiink the keys to your success begin with JC, a great coaching staff and the system you described. At least in Winnfield (and most other places) there is a feeder program that runs the same plays/formations that the varsity team has. show me a great high school program and I have to think that program is supported by a strong feeder program. Most people don't know that no high school in Shreveport has a feeder program. No middle school has any connection with any high school here. So, there is no running of the varsity plays at an early age and kids scatter to any number of high schools after middle school so you even lose that group cohesion. If Curtis has the perfect storm, Shreveport has the imperfect storm. High school coaches here start from scratch with their system when they get 9th graders.
I am sorry that you or any or your supporters ran into bad experiences at Winnfield. You know as well as I do that any sports program is going to have bad apples. The people I know that love Winnfield football are very respectful, knowledgeable people who would treat opposing fans with respect. My pet peeve is ignorant fans and/or fans who or are driven by pure emotion. Your fans apprarently ran into a few of those. I would be offended by that behavior myself and if I saw a Winnfield fan doing that I would be embarrassed.
This one sentence you wrote is my ONLY complaint about the public private mess: you wrote: "To be honest we have the perfect storm to be successful. JCC is located in metropolitan New Orleans so the pool to draw students is bigger." The reason I specified small rural public schools is this simple fact. A Class AA public school will have between 125 and 200 boys. A rural public school has to get those kids from whoever lives there. What are the chances of a school in Winn parish having a large number of home grown top quality football players in any given year. My point in an earlier post was that every so often a high number of quality athletes will come along the same year and give a small school an outstanding football team. I very much believe that the "if you build it they will come" principle applies to schools like yours. I don't think you have to recruit. The success of your program is your best marketing tool. I thought the best solution was to have you guys playing in a higher classification because your talent level was closer to what you would expect at a 4A or 5A level. History has shown that public AA schools of late have no chance against you (or most any private school for that matter). That's as simple as I can make my argument.
I also said that since Winnfield has won only one title in the past 50 years I am glad they won it against Curtis. That is meant as a compliment to you. I don't say that out of revenge or anger. I say that becuase I want to say that on that day we beat one of the best football teams in the state. In 2011, I'm not so sure that your team wasn't the best team in the state regardless of class.
I would like to end this on a positive note. Just like you don't want "everyone" to view "all" of Curtis bad, I would ask the same of you. There are a lot of good people associated with Winnfield football.
I am expecting you to have another good playoff run. That is a given in Patriot land. Hopefully Winnfield can continue it's good playoff run in what is truly a rebuilding year.
Posted on 11/16/13 at 11:04 pm to NorthTiger
quote:
select and non-select
OBAMA's AMERICA
Posted on 11/17/13 at 12:44 am to NorthTiger
Winnfield should be happy now. No JC,no Eca,not even Calvary.your trophy is within reach now. Now go get it. No more excuses.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 2:00 am to choupiquesushi
quote:
what % of boys playing football and hoops at curtis are holdback>?
You know your priorities are in line when your valedictorian is a hold back.
"But he needed a year to "develop" in the classroom!"
Or he is your starting QB and All State shortstop
All of Curtis's titles (baseball and football) in the late 90s and early 2000s were led by hold backs. Whether you think it's right or wrong, it's a fact.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 7:09 am to GynoSandberg
Gyno, what hs did you go to?
Posted on 11/17/13 at 7:46 am to IAintGotNoWorries
quote:
quote: select and non-select OBAMA's AMERICA
Validation in four responses. A new record.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 8:26 am to NorthTiger
quote:
There is a difference in her being a part of a majority of Principals who support a split and saing she "hates"John Curtis, which is what you said. Are you still standing by your statement that Griffin "hates" John Curtis. This is, "if you are not for us you hate us." Mighty strong words. I know one thing.....this thread has plenty of posters who have openly expressed their hatred of Griffin or shall I say "a strong dislike." Interesting.
She stated under oath that her proposal was about two schools.
She did no research, she could present no facts, and she could not justify any of her opinions while under oath. She admitted that her proposal was based on personal experience and not data.
And, FTR, Winnfield beat JC in the state championship a few years back. The entire proposal is a complete nonsense that ignores real problems with the LHSAA in favor of bolstering the chances of certain rural public schools winning state championships. It's going to ultimately hurt inner city public schools.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 10:35 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
Antonio Moss
quote:
quote:There is a difference in her being a part of a majority of Principals who support a split and saing she "hates"John Curtis, which is what you said. Are you still standing by your statement that Griffin "hates" John Curtis. This is, "if you are not for us you hate us." Mighty strong words. I know one thing.....this thread has plenty of posters who have openly expressed their hatred of Griffin or shall I say "a strong dislike." Interesting. She stated under oath that her proposal was about two schools. She did no research, she could present no facts, and she could not justify any of her opinions while under oath. She admitted that her proposal was based on personal experience and not data. And, FTR, Winnfield beat JC in the state championship a few years back. The entire proposal is a complete nonsense that ignores real problems with the LHSAA in favor of bolstering the chances of certain rural public schools winning state championships. It's going to ultimately hurt inner city public schools.
1. You missed the only point I was trying to make in the post you quoted me from. I never said that the proposal presented by Jane Griffin had nothing to do with Curtis. My lone point was that a comment was made that she "hates" Curtis. Did she say under oath that she "hates" Curtis. For that matter, I have no idea how Jane Griffin feels about Curtis. But, since hate is such a strong term I don't believe she hates Curtis.
2. You said Winnfield beat JC in the title game "a few years back" as if that happened in recent years. That happened 31 years ago. Curtis had very good teams back then, but that program has gotten stronger over time. Yes, back in the early years of the program Curtis would lose to AA teams. When was the last time Curtis lost to a AA team? I know the Principals from the upper classes didn't want Evangel and Curtis, but what chance does a AA school have now of beating Curtis?
Posted on 11/17/13 at 10:57 am to GhostofJackson
quote:
Gyno, what hs did you go to?
HC
Posted on 11/17/13 at 11:43 am to GynoSandberg
As me and another poster who graduated from HC decided, HC shouldn't be throwing stones on students right now. Both Curtis and HC have the same caliber of kid right now and a lit of transfers are going on between the two. Most likely anything going on at Curtis right now is going on at HC. Unless of course you meant Helen Cox haha.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 11:54 am to GynoSandberg
Thanks to the Principal and her gang for ruining La HS football.
The old way was set up for public schools to dominate football. All Public school players go to the school free.
I don't doubt some get free tuition at privates so what.
To say private schools cheat and recruit is naive.
Lutcher is a good example. So many players cross the river from St John to play at Lutcher in the past it's a long running joke.
West Monroe? May not have invented holding kids back a grade for athletic advantages but they perfected it.
Destarhan should be banned from the play off this year. The kids knew they were cheating.
Public schools can't compete because of parents.
Can't stand the kids being disciplined, can't pass so lower the grading scale. Lower the bar, that's what they think it takes to be winners.
Next step 7 public school classifications.
Public and private schools will completely split in 2 years. Maybe some Independent Miss. schools and a few east Texas privates and you'll have a great Deep South Football Association.
Lastly the Public school are leaching off the private schools. Most don't even travel with one parent or fan per player. But get a 50/50 gate split. They also get free millions of dollars
for equipment and artificial grass football fields. Every thing they need to dominate is there.
Only problem, most public schools are run by corrupt union teachers.
The old way was set up for public schools to dominate football. All Public school players go to the school free.
I don't doubt some get free tuition at privates so what.
To say private schools cheat and recruit is naive.
Lutcher is a good example. So many players cross the river from St John to play at Lutcher in the past it's a long running joke.
West Monroe? May not have invented holding kids back a grade for athletic advantages but they perfected it.
Destarhan should be banned from the play off this year. The kids knew they were cheating.
Public schools can't compete because of parents.
Can't stand the kids being disciplined, can't pass so lower the grading scale. Lower the bar, that's what they think it takes to be winners.
Next step 7 public school classifications.
Public and private schools will completely split in 2 years. Maybe some Independent Miss. schools and a few east Texas privates and you'll have a great Deep South Football Association.
Lastly the Public school are leaching off the private schools. Most don't even travel with one parent or fan per player. But get a 50/50 gate split. They also get free millions of dollars
for equipment and artificial grass football fields. Every thing they need to dominate is there.
Only problem, most public schools are run by corrupt union teachers.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 11:58 am to OLDBEACHCOMBER
quote:
Public and private schools will completely split in 2 years
I say after this year is over, there will be a move for it.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 12:13 pm to GhostofJackson
Holy cross can have good teams but as a Chalmette fan I'm not going to call them out for anything unless I had the facts no matter how many times we get our arse kicked. Its the job of every team and every school in the state to compete to the best
of their ability.
When they don't, no wonder their.schools and teams lose kids to a John Curtis. If we want to talk unfair, schools like winnfield don't lose anyone to private schools , as there aren't any.
If you think Curtis is cheating maybe you better cheat more. Some schools and posters on here regarding hs sports want to live in the world of what they think should be legal, instead of what actually is. Bottom line, go find a kid and take him in. J.t. did with Joe mcknight and that worked out. That kind of thing. It must have been legal since I haven't heard a peep from the lhsaa.
of their ability.
When they don't, no wonder their.schools and teams lose kids to a John Curtis. If we want to talk unfair, schools like winnfield don't lose anyone to private schools , as there aren't any.
If you think Curtis is cheating maybe you better cheat more. Some schools and posters on here regarding hs sports want to live in the world of what they think should be legal, instead of what actually is. Bottom line, go find a kid and take him in. J.t. did with Joe mcknight and that worked out. That kind of thing. It must have been legal since I haven't heard a peep from the lhsaa.
This post was edited on 11/17/13 at 12:28 pm
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