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re: If Aaron Judge is the MVP over Altuve then the voters are a sham
Posted on 10/6/17 at 8:19 am to ElroyJetSon
Posted on 10/6/17 at 8:19 am to ElroyJetSon
quote:
There isn't even a conversation to be had. This is a one man race
I don’t agree. Now Mike Trout last year was a clear one man race, yet there were some Astros fans acting like that race was a toss up or Altuve got shafted.
1
Posted on 10/6/17 at 8:24 am to sgallo3
Let me guess: Astros fan?
Posted on 10/6/17 at 8:27 am to BayouBengals03
quote:Hell, based on this what's the argument for Altuve over Judge?
Judge had a higher OBP, slugging, and scored more runs than Altuve. He had better park-adjusted numbers than Altuve. A better defender according to the metrics. He had a higher WAR than Altuve, according to Fangraphs. More weighted runs created.
Judge led the league in homers, walks, runs, 2nd in RBI, etc, etc. etc
Posted on 10/6/17 at 8:28 am to shel311
quote:
Hell, based on this what's the argument for Altuve over Judge?
He plays for the Astros. That's their main reasoning.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 8:41 am to shel311
Higher average less ks didn't spend 1/3 of the season being sub replacement player more steals. If you put any weight into stats indicating clutch play judge is terrible in the clutch while altuve is very good. Altuve has a higher war using the superior baseball reference war.
Over 1/3 of the time judge strikes out. 1/3 of the season judge was sub replacement
Over 1/3 of the time judge strikes out. 1/3 of the season judge was sub replacement
Posted on 10/6/17 at 9:10 am to Adam Banks
quote:
Higher average less ks didn't spend 1/3 of the season being sub replacement player more steals. If you put any weight into stats indicating clutch play judge is terrible in the clutch while altuve is very good. Altuve has a higher war using the superior baseball reference war.
Over 1/3 of the time judge strikes out. 1/3 of the season judge was sub replacement
Batting average should go the way that "wins" for pitchers go -- it's a decent stat, but OBP and OPS are much more telling factors, and Judge was better in both areas. The part about Judge playing poorly for 1/3 of the season is a knock on him, but the fact that he played like a HOF for the other 2/3 of the season is more impactful.
With that being said, I don't think you could go wrong either way between Altuve and Judge. As someone else said, the only wrong answer is to say one of the two is a slam-dunk pick over the other.
In the end I think the voters will give the award to Judge because he plays in the media capital and is the more flashy player but it would be cool to see the "little guy" win it.
This post was edited on 10/6/17 at 9:12 am
Posted on 10/6/17 at 9:27 am to BayouBengals03
quote:
Astrotards claiming that it would be a "travesty" or that they'd never respect the MVP award again if Judge wins.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 9:27 am to BenDover
quote:
OBP
Oh. Didn't know a walk could advance a guy from 1st to 3rd. Silly me.
OPS is better I agree but altuves ops was much more consistent over the course of the season.
I said in the other thread that I think judge wins it. He's also not a bad pick but if I were voting the 1/3 of the season was so bad that with another legitimate contender I'd vote for the person who did it all season.
This post was edited on 10/6/17 at 9:29 am
Posted on 10/6/17 at 9:29 am to BenDover
quote:Pretty much this.
With that being said, I don't think you could go wrong either way between Altuve and Judge. As someone else said, the only wrong answer is to say one of the two is a slam-dunk pick over the other.
quote:Yea, if you bring up the 1/3 of the season thing, is valid. But then you're basically conceding that Judge was much, much better for the other 2/3 of the season, so you have to account for that. There's definitely points for consistency though, I get that.
The part about Judge playing poorly for 1/3 of the season is a knock on him, but the fact that he played like a HOF for the other 2/3 of the season is more impactful.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 9:48 am to sgallo3
It's baseball who cares
Posted on 10/6/17 at 9:53 am to shel311
It comes down to if voters prefer counting stats or clutchness & consistency. Judge finished higher in HRs, RBIs, SLG, OPS etc... Well, he should! He is a middle of the order power hitter. That is specifically his game. He should finish higher than Altuve in every power category in every single year of his career or else he is doing something wrong. But if thats what you give MVP awards to, a non traditional power hitter will never be able to win the award. Should there not be other intangibles considered? Thats what it will come down to.
And of course I am biased, but a middle infielder who:
Clutch
And of course I am biased, but a middle infielder who:
quote:
There is not a more consistent player in all parts of the game — offense, defense, durability — than Altuve, who will finish the season with a league-leading batting average of over .340, 32-plus stolen bases and a .960-plus OPS, a feat accomplished by only five other players in American League history: Paul Molitor, George Sisler, Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker and Shoeless Joe Jackson. Altuve hit .290 or more every month of the season, hit .347 before the All-Star break and .349 after; .343 with a .962 OPS versus lefties and .349 with a .970 OPS against righties, and probably most significant in this day and age of countless injuries in baseball, has never spent a day on the disabled list. Altuve also leads the majors in clutch (close and late situations) hitting (presently .448) with a 1.209 OPS and .362 from the seventh inning on and .342 with two outs.
Clutch
This post was edited on 10/6/17 at 9:55 am
Posted on 10/6/17 at 10:02 am to TTownTiger
quote:For me, no not really to intangibles.
But if thats what you give MVP awards to, a non traditional power hitter will never be able to win the award. Should there not be other intangibles considered?
There's certain status I think are valuable. Whether it's a power hitter or not, those are the ones I'd lean towards when seeing who is the best player in a league.
That being said, I do think it's fairly close, but I also think Judge seemingly has the edge.
quote:That's always a tricky one in how to evaluate. You can't really discount or ignore that Altuve was rather obviously bigger in those clutch spots. But I also don't think clutch is something you can replicate over and over, it's largely random. But again, even being random doesn't take away from the fact that Altuve still was much better, so as I said, it's tough to figure out how to value that in this discussion for me.
Clutch
Posted on 10/6/17 at 10:15 am to TTownTiger
I think what is being lost in all of this is who gives their team a better chance to win. Or rather, Who is more valuable to their team. With Springer and Correa missing extended time, the Astros kept winning, in large part to Altuve being himself all year long. Judge is a great player and easily is rookie of the year, but team success ought to also be taken into account. Something should be said for Altuve helping his team rout their division as opposed to Judge helping his team cling to a Wild Card. (Yes, I know Trout won his while the Angels were basement dwellers)
Posted on 10/6/17 at 10:20 am to shel311
quote:
Clutch
quote:
That's always a tricky one in how to evaluate.
Game 1 - ALDS
Judge - 4K
Altuve - 3HR
Posted on 10/6/17 at 10:23 am to TTownTiger
quote:
It comes down to if voters prefer counting stats or clutchness & consistency.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 10:24 am to The Seaward
quote:should still win this year
Mike Trout
Posted on 10/6/17 at 10:32 am to High C
quote:Also tricky to evaluate...sample size.
Game 1 - ALDS
Judge - 4K
Altuve - 3HR
Posted on 10/6/17 at 10:35 am to WestCoastAg
quote:
Mike Trout should still win this year
Using the arguments people give for judge then yes he definitely should. Higher slugging percentage higher OBP higher batting average more steals higher WRC+ in a more premium outfield position.
If people think Judge over Altuve then they should have Trout over Judge. Also trouts injury Hurt his team in a smaller part of the season than Judges Awful play
This post was edited on 10/6/17 at 10:36 am
Posted on 10/6/17 at 10:35 am to WestCoastAg
If he would have played 150+ games, he likely would have ran away with it. As is I can’t see having him get it over Judge or Altuve.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 10:36 am to shel311
quote:quote:
Game 1 - ALDS
Judge - 4K
Altuve - 3HR
Also tricky to evaluate...sample size.
Also irrelevant, because votes are already cast.
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