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Started By
Message
Honest Discussion----Lack of Black Head Coaches
Posted on 1/22/21 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 1/22/21 at 1:59 pm
I got into a discussion on another board about Bienienmy and the Lack of Head Coaches in the NFL.
Now we can talk about the various reasons about why very few have been successful. I will say that it should be mentioned that outside of Mike Tomlin most of all Head Coaches (Black or White) typically come into similar circumstances. They are taking over a failed franchise for a recent coach that has been fired.
It is my contention that will there may be a small percentage of African American coaches in the league, but I don't think there has necessarily been a shortage.
Dennis Green
Tony Dungy--Super Bowl-Failed in Tampa, never fielded a defense in Indy
Lovie Smith
Anthony Lynn
Art Shell
Romel Cronell
Marvin Lewis---Several playoffs
Jim Cardwell
Hue Jackson
Outside of Tomlin and Dungy very few have had success.
Is it a management style?..I have already heard the broadcasters say that Robert Saleh plans on being a CEO type that will hire his OC and DC and then be hands off.
Is it not being able to relate to the Whole team?
Not relating to the owner or GM? the Community?
Now we can talk about the various reasons about why very few have been successful. I will say that it should be mentioned that outside of Mike Tomlin most of all Head Coaches (Black or White) typically come into similar circumstances. They are taking over a failed franchise for a recent coach that has been fired.
It is my contention that will there may be a small percentage of African American coaches in the league, but I don't think there has necessarily been a shortage.
Dennis Green
Tony Dungy--Super Bowl-Failed in Tampa, never fielded a defense in Indy
Lovie Smith
Anthony Lynn
Art Shell
Romel Cronell
Marvin Lewis---Several playoffs
Jim Cardwell
Hue Jackson
Outside of Tomlin and Dungy very few have had success.
Is it a management style?..I have already heard the broadcasters say that Robert Saleh plans on being a CEO type that will hire his OC and DC and then be hands off.
Is it not being able to relate to the Whole team?
Not relating to the owner or GM? the Community?
39
Posted on 1/22/21 at 2:01 pm to tigerterrace
quote:
Robert Saleh
He is Lebanese.
quote:
Is it a management style?
Most head coaches are failures. Because there are so many fewer black head coaches than white head coaches, there will be fewer “success stories”. The fact is that almost all head coaches are fired. So I would contend that most head coaches are “failures” if the metrics are Super Bowls or long tenures. So I don’t think it’s fair to just look at percentage of those successes.
This post was edited on 1/22/21 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 1/22/21 at 2:04 pm to tigerterrace
quote:
Is it not being able to relate to the Whole team? Not relating to the owner or GM? the Community?
Just ridiculous to say.
Posted on 1/22/21 at 2:07 pm to tigerterrace
quote:I dont have any stats to back this up, but Id imagine the NFL >60-70% black players. So if they cant relate to the players, then there is a bigger issue.
is it not being able to relate to the Whole team?
Posted on 1/22/21 at 2:13 pm to tigerterrace
When there are more minority GM's there will be more minority coaches.
damn its true. They do the hiring and if you don't think that 10 more minority GM's would lead to more minority hiring I can't help you.
Not making a moral judgement at all.
damn its true. They do the hiring and if you don't think that 10 more minority GM's would lead to more minority hiring I can't help you. Not making a moral judgement at all.
This post was edited on 1/22/21 at 2:36 pm
Posted on 1/22/21 at 2:29 pm to tigerterrace
If we are supposedly moving forward from racism, then we need to stop having these discussions. Because skin color shouldn’t be a factor either way.
Posted on 1/22/21 at 2:39 pm to tigerterrace
If 70% of the players are black, then they must have traits that make them better at football. I wonder if white coaches have traits that make them better at being the head coach. Or is it only racist one way?
Posted on 1/22/21 at 2:40 pm to tigerterrace
Take this to the SJW board
Posted on 1/22/21 at 2:49 pm to tigerterrace
quote:
Now we can talk about the various reasons about why very few have been successful.
Most coaches aren't successful but it also depends on how you want to define success. Marvin Lewis is the winningest coach in Bengals history. Caldwell went to a SB and is the only coach the Lions have had with a winning record since 1972. Green had 8 playoffs and one losing season in a decade in Minny.
quote:
but I don't think there has necessarily been a shortage.
19 in the history of the modern league starting in 1989. How many coaches have there been since 1989?
quote:
Outside of Tomlin and Dungy very few have had success.
Would you consider not hiring white coaches because of another white guy's lack of success?
quote:
I have already heard the broadcasters say that Robert Saleh plans on being a CEO type that will hire his OC and DC and then be hands off.
Saleh's not black.
This post was edited on 1/22/21 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 1/22/21 at 2:49 pm to tigerterrace
DP
This post was edited on 1/22/21 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 1/22/21 at 3:17 pm to tigerterrace
Take race out of it for a second.
Most coaches, white or black, are unsuccessful.
If you researched, “NFL coaches from California,” the majority of those coaches are unsuccessful.
Most coaches, white or black, are unsuccessful.
If you researched, “NFL coaches from California,” the majority of those coaches are unsuccessful.
Posted on 1/22/21 at 3:34 pm to tigerterrace
If Pederson had been black.. What outrage would the Eagles have gotten? Winning a Super Bowl 2 seasons ago.. Recently had some bad seasons.. Hired in 2016... Would he have been fired for tanking the season if he was black?
Posted on 1/22/21 at 3:55 pm to tigerterrace
My question to anyone who thinks there is a unfair shortage of black HCs in the NFL.
Do you think the reason that there are more black players in the NFL is because they are better athletes?
Do you think black dudes are equally qualified to be HCs in terms of intelligence/leadership etc?
If the answer to both of those is yes, then you are a black supremacist.
If the answer is that both are equal in both, but there are ground-up, grassroots, cultural factors that lead to the discrepancies, then we should either fix both or agree that, welp, thems the breaks buddy.
Do you think the reason that there are more black players in the NFL is because they are better athletes?
Do you think black dudes are equally qualified to be HCs in terms of intelligence/leadership etc?
If the answer to both of those is yes, then you are a black supremacist.
If the answer is that both are equal in both, but there are ground-up, grassroots, cultural factors that lead to the discrepancies, then we should either fix both or agree that, welp, thems the breaks buddy.
This post was edited on 1/22/21 at 3:57 pm
Posted on 1/22/21 at 3:57 pm to saintsfan22
quote:
How many coaches have there been since 1989?
2000-2016
OAK 9 Jon Gruden; Bill Callahan; Norv Turner; Art Shell; Lane Kiffin; Tom Cable; Hue Jackson; Dennis Allen; Jack Del Rio
CLE 8 Chris Palmer; Butch Davis; Romeo Crennel; Eric Mangini; Pat Shurmur; Rob Chudzinski; Mike Pettine; Hue Jackson
SFO 7 Steve Mariucci; Dennis Erickson; Mike Nolan; Mike Singletary; Jim Harbaugh; Jim Tomsula; Chip Kelly
WAS 7 Norv Turner; Marty Schottenheimer; Steve Spurrier; Joe Gibbs; Jim Zorn; Mike Shanahan; Jay Gruden
BUF 7 Wade Phillips; Gregg Williams; Mike Mularkey; Dick Jauron; Chan Gailey; Doug Marrone; Rex Ryan
DET 6 Bobby Ross; Marty Mornhinweg; Steve Mariucci; Rod Marinelli; Jim Schwartz; Jim Caldwell
KAN 6 Gunther Cunningham; Dick Vermeil; Herman Edwards; Todd Haley; Romeo Crennel; Andy Reid
TAM 6 Tony Dungy; Jon Gruden; Raheem Morris; Greg Schiano; Lovie Smith; Dirk Koetter
MIA 6 Dave Wannstedt; Nick Saban; Cam Cameron; Tony Sparano; Joe Philbin; Adam Gase
ATL 5 Dan Reeves; Jim Mora; Emmitt Thomas; Mike Smith; Dan Quinn
MIN 5 Dennis Green; Mike Tice; Brad Childress; Leslie Frazier; Mike Zimmer
NYJ 5 Al Groh; Herman Edwards; Eric Mangini; Rex Ryan; Todd Bowles
CHI 4 Dick Jauron; Lovie Smith; Marc Trestman; John Fox
IND 4 Jim Mora; Tony Dungy; Jim Caldwell; Chuck Pagano
ARI 4 Dave McGinnis; Dennis Green; Ken Whisenhunt; Bruce Arians
DAL 4 Dave Campo; Bill Parcells; Wade Phillips; Jason Garrett
DEN 4 Mike Shanahan; Josh McDaniels; John Fox; Gary Kubiak
JAX 4 Tom Coughlin; Jack Del Rio; Mike Mularkey; Gus Bradley
NOR 4 Jim Haslett; Sean Payton; Aaron Kromer; Sean Payton
TEN 4 Jeff Fisher; Mike Munchak; Ken Whisenhunt; Mike Mularkey
STL 4 Mike Martz; Scott Linehan; Steve Spagnuolo; Jeff Fisher
SDG 4 Mike Riley; Marty Schottenheimer; Norv Turner; Mike McCoy
CAR 3 George Seifert; John Fox; Ron Rivera
CIN 3 Bruce Coslet; Dick LeBeau; Marvin Lewis
HOU 3 Dom Capers; Gary Kubiak; Bill O'Brien
NYG 3 Jim Fassel; Tom Coughlin; Ben McAdoo
PHI 3 Andy Reid; Chip Kelly; Doug Pederson
SEA 3 Mike Holmgren; Jim Mora; Pete Carroll
GNB 2 Mike Sherman; Mike McCarthy
PIT 2 Bill Cowher; Mike Tomlin
BAL 2 Brian Billick; John Harbaugh
NWE 1 Bill Belichick
Posted on 1/22/21 at 4:01 pm to tigerterrace
quote:
Hue Jackson
1-31 his first two years and he kept his job.
Posted on 1/22/21 at 4:14 pm to tigerterrace
Right now, Head Coaches are being picked because they appear to display some elite understanding of the game...especially offensively.
Very few black assistants are viewed this way. Bienemy isn't even viewed as the guy running the KC offense much less architecting it. Pretty much everyone knows Reid is the brains behind that organization.
That doesn't mean he can't do it. It just means that he's not viewed that way, nor should he be.
Everyone wants a Sean Payton type of coach right now instead of a Bill Parcells type.
Which black assistant coaches are viewed this way?
Very few black assistants are viewed this way. Bienemy isn't even viewed as the guy running the KC offense much less architecting it. Pretty much everyone knows Reid is the brains behind that organization.
That doesn't mean he can't do it. It just means that he's not viewed that way, nor should he be.
Everyone wants a Sean Payton type of coach right now instead of a Bill Parcells type.
Which black assistant coaches are viewed this way?
Posted on 1/22/21 at 4:16 pm to RealityTiger
And yet it still is.... which is why we still need to have the discussion
Posted on 1/22/21 at 4:21 pm to goatmilker
quote:
They do the hiring and if you don't think that 10 more minority GM's would lead to more minority hiring I can't help you.
based on actual events 1 for 16
Teams with black GMs and the coaches they hired during their tenure
Oakland (McKenzie) hired Allen, Sprano, DelRio, & Gruden
Baltimore (Newsome) hired Harbaugh and Billick
Houston (Smith) hired Wade Phillips and Bill O'Brien
NY Giants (Reese) hired Ben McAdoo
Buffalo (Whaley) hired Ryan and McDermott
Cleveland (Brown)hired Kevin Stefanski
Miami (Grier) hired Gase and Flores
Detriot (Holmes) hired Dan Campbell
Atlanta (Fontenot) hired Arthur Smith
Posted on 1/22/21 at 4:31 pm to moneyg
quote:
Right now, Head Coaches are being picked because they appear to display some elite understanding of the game...especially offensively.
Very few black assistants are viewed this way. Bienemy isn't even viewed as the guy running the KC offense much less architecting it. Pretty much everyone knows Reid is the brains behind that organization.
Sirianni wasn't viewed as the brains or architect in Indy but didn't stop him from getting the Eagles job. Even more so for Dan Campbell in Detroit.
Posted on 1/22/21 at 4:34 pm to saintsfan22
quote:
Even more so for Dan Campbell in Detroit.
was hired by a black GM
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