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Posted on 10/13/14 at 4:50 pm to htran90
quote:Some can judge his skills based on what he's done on the field. Some can't.
That unfortunately takes away a lot of what he's done because he's very good.
Has he benefitted from a stud defense and running game? Of course. Does that mean he isn't an elusive QB with great accuracy, velocity, decision making skills and composure? No.
The dude can take over games. Game managers don't do that.
Posted on 10/13/14 at 4:51 pm to DelU249
Luck's YPA is 7.0, is he bad then?
Ryan's YPA in his 1st 3 years was 7.0 as well, what then?
Flacco's YPA in his 1st 3 years was 7.2. So he was better than Luck AND Ryan?
Manning's YPA in his 1st 3 years was 7.3.
RG 3's YPA is 7.5, is he better than the above 3?
YPA and passer rating alone are bad indicators. Situational works better.
In the 13 games that Seattle has allowed 20+ points (24.2ppg), Wilson's team has gone 7-6.
He's gone:
228/361 (63.15%)
2680 yards (206.2ypg)
7.4Y/A
24TD - 8INT (1.85TD/game - 0.62 INT/game)
You're not taking into account the effect that run game and defense has an on opponent. Is he elite, not yet.
Is he freaking GOOD? Hell yeah. No one denies he's good or not. To say he's elite is over the top just a tad bit.
Ryan's YPA in his 1st 3 years was 7.0 as well, what then?
Flacco's YPA in his 1st 3 years was 7.2. So he was better than Luck AND Ryan?
Manning's YPA in his 1st 3 years was 7.3.
RG 3's YPA is 7.5, is he better than the above 3?
YPA and passer rating alone are bad indicators. Situational works better.
In the 13 games that Seattle has allowed 20+ points (24.2ppg), Wilson's team has gone 7-6.
He's gone:
228/361 (63.15%)
2680 yards (206.2ypg)
7.4Y/A
24TD - 8INT (1.85TD/game - 0.62 INT/game)
You're not taking into account the effect that run game and defense has an on opponent. Is he elite, not yet.
Is he freaking GOOD? Hell yeah. No one denies he's good or not. To say he's elite is over the top just a tad bit.
This post was edited on 10/13/14 at 4:56 pm
Posted on 10/13/14 at 4:53 pm to boom roasted
When pointing to a lack of TD passes and 300 yard games, I would consider him to be in a bad situation. Seattle is marty ball on steroids
Posted on 10/13/14 at 4:55 pm to htran90
Can you condense your numerous walls of statistics into a concise argument?
Posted on 10/13/14 at 5:13 pm to htran90
a 7 YPA is awesome, so now while calling RW a game manager you've put him on a list with Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco...none of which are game managers, one of which is the GOAT, another that is a top 3 QB in only his 3rd year. RG3 hasn't been healthy since his rookie year. let me know when he's on the field.
this is like john madden saying "I think the team that scores the most points will win the game" no shite his winning percentage goes down when his defense gives up a shitload of points. You're not really presenting any advanced statistics. It's really simple...seattle plays ground n pound. Wilson doesn't get as many attempts. What's hilarious to me is Russell Wilson isn't close to being a finished product. He's 5 games into his 3rd year. Doug Baldwin is his best receiver. If you'd like to see what it looks like when his defense is being shredded AND they abandon the run, go look at the TB game last year or the 2012 game against Atlanta.
so he's been awesome?
what are you arguing?
not even the argument, though he is obviously a top qb in the league. You're using all of these awesome numbers to call him a game manager.
it's not, I'm starting to think you've never seen him play. There are maybe 5 or 6 qbs playing better, and Wilson's SITUATION keeps him from being higher than those guys because he doesn't get the volume they do.
quote:
In the 13 games that Seattle has allowed 20+ points (24.2ppg), Wilson's team has gone 7-6
this is like john madden saying "I think the team that scores the most points will win the game" no shite his winning percentage goes down when his defense gives up a shitload of points. You're not really presenting any advanced statistics. It's really simple...seattle plays ground n pound. Wilson doesn't get as many attempts. What's hilarious to me is Russell Wilson isn't close to being a finished product. He's 5 games into his 3rd year. Doug Baldwin is his best receiver. If you'd like to see what it looks like when his defense is being shredded AND they abandon the run, go look at the TB game last year or the 2012 game against Atlanta.
quote:
228/361 (63.15%)
2680 yards (206.2ypg)
7.4Y/A
24TD - 8INT (1.85TD/game - 0.62 INT/game
so he's been awesome?
what are you arguing? quote:
Is he elite, not yet
not even the argument, though he is obviously a top qb in the league. You're using all of these awesome numbers to call him a game manager.
quote:
To say he's elite is over the top just a tad bit
it's not, I'm starting to think you've never seen him play. There are maybe 5 or 6 qbs playing better, and Wilson's SITUATION keeps him from being higher than those guys because he doesn't get the volume they do.
Posted on 10/13/14 at 5:23 pm to DelU249
Look again, I've never stated he was a game manager. That was whoever else, I was just presenting facts.
He doesn't have the gaudy numbers of the elite QBs. He won't completely take over every game for you and win, but he can do it and has done it enough. The games where the team's core gets upended (defense) and they abandon the run game, he comes up short more often than not.
Can he take over the game week by week and pretty much dismantle every team he faces? As of right now, he can't do it on a weekly basis. The team just isn't built to do that and doesn't need to.
Rodgers and the elite on the other hand, their teams are built around them and they're the most important cog on that team. If Wilson, Rodgers, Brees, Manning, and Rivers were to go down, what team drops off the most? It isn't Seattle.
If he's a manager, he's an elite manager, which is top 10 already.
He doesn't have the gaudy numbers of the elite QBs. He won't completely take over every game for you and win, but he can do it and has done it enough. The games where the team's core gets upended (defense) and they abandon the run game, he comes up short more often than not.
Can he take over the game week by week and pretty much dismantle every team he faces? As of right now, he can't do it on a weekly basis. The team just isn't built to do that and doesn't need to.
Rodgers and the elite on the other hand, their teams are built around them and they're the most important cog on that team. If Wilson, Rodgers, Brees, Manning, and Rivers were to go down, what team drops off the most? It isn't Seattle.
If he's a manager, he's an elite manager, which is top 10 already.
This post was edited on 10/13/14 at 5:24 pm
Posted on 10/13/14 at 5:36 pm to LosLobos111
quote:
God you make some shitty posts sometimes
Sarcasm dude geez
Posted on 10/13/14 at 5:56 pm to htran90
Posted by htran90 on 10/13 at 4:28 pm to Fox Mulder
"He's never had good receivers"
Wut
Zach miller?? Lol.
How many games has Percy harvin missed?
For people that say he's a game manager:
Russell Wilson makes plays that other QBs can't make??
T/F?
Anyone that says false is an idiot
How is that a game manager
"He's never had good receivers"
quote:
Percy Harvin
Zach Miller
Golden Tate
were all good receiving options
Wut
Zach miller?? Lol.
How many games has Percy harvin missed?
For people that say he's a game manager:
Russell Wilson makes plays that other QBs can't make??
T/F?
Anyone that says false is an idiot
How is that a game manager
Posted on 10/13/14 at 5:58 pm to htran90
Why does an elite QB have to have gaudy stats?
That's the one notion that never makes sense to me.
That's the one notion that never makes sense to me.
Posted on 10/13/14 at 6:08 pm to sms151t
People consider it the gaudy stats mean he is the focal point of his team.
He's not in a shithole with bad receivers. He can constantly produce the 3500 yards, 25-30TD/10INT, and people won't put him elite.
Rivers' wasn't even considered an Elite, but he put up 4k+ yards, 30TDs/10INTs for 3 years. He had a really bad slump for 1 year, then back to pretty above average numbers with 3600 yards and 26/15. Then last yaer back to his 4k+ 30/10. Now he's on pace for 4k yards 40/10.
The reason why people discredit Wilson is because he's not the team's centerpiece. As long as that defense plays the way they've played and Lynch is the RB, they'll always say he was a benefactor of a monster defense and run game. Sounds familiar?
He's VERY good. Far from game manager, but people define elite QBs by being able to carry their team on their back every week. They win and lose by their QB, even if the defense gives up 40 points, they'll still win. You can't say that about Wilson yet.
He'll eventually have to carry the team, the question becomes can he. Brady took the step, and I am very sure Wilson can and will as well. The question remains will he.
He's not in a shithole with bad receivers. He can constantly produce the 3500 yards, 25-30TD/10INT, and people won't put him elite.
Rivers' wasn't even considered an Elite, but he put up 4k+ yards, 30TDs/10INTs for 3 years. He had a really bad slump for 1 year, then back to pretty above average numbers with 3600 yards and 26/15. Then last yaer back to his 4k+ 30/10. Now he's on pace for 4k yards 40/10.
The reason why people discredit Wilson is because he's not the team's centerpiece. As long as that defense plays the way they've played and Lynch is the RB, they'll always say he was a benefactor of a monster defense and run game. Sounds familiar?
He's VERY good. Far from game manager, but people define elite QBs by being able to carry their team on their back every week. They win and lose by their QB, even if the defense gives up 40 points, they'll still win. You can't say that about Wilson yet.
He'll eventually have to carry the team, the question becomes can he. Brady took the step, and I am very sure Wilson can and will as well. The question remains will he.
This post was edited on 10/13/14 at 6:10 pm
Posted on 10/13/14 at 6:29 pm to DelU249
quote:
what sort of question is this...Wilson could throw it down to the goal line every drive and they could give it to lynch.
It was rhetorical. We know he doesnt do this because he only throws for 206 yards a game.
Posted on 10/13/14 at 6:31 pm to htran90
htran90
Pretty much all of that. That's what Ive been beating around. Youre spot on.
Pretty much all of that. That's what Ive been beating around. Youre spot on.
This post was edited on 10/13/14 at 6:32 pm
Posted on 10/13/14 at 6:52 pm to htran90
3350 passing
500 plus rushing
26/9 TD:INT
101.2 rating
64% completion rating
GAME MANAGER
500 plus rushing
26/9 TD:INT
101.2 rating
64% completion rating
GAME MANAGER
Posted on 10/13/14 at 6:57 pm to DelU249
Clearly defenses do not have to game plan for Russell Wilson.
Posted on 10/13/14 at 6:57 pm to htran90
quote:
3500 yards, 25-30TD/10INT, and people won't put him elite.
Don't forget the 500 rushing per year so 4,000 yards
Otherwise what you just described is peyton Manning's 2008 and 2005
Guess who won the MVP in 2008? I'm not saying he's on Manning's level, but I am saying you have some really high expectations for a game manager.
And I would like to point out that rivers was never anything but awesome.
This post was edited on 10/13/14 at 7:02 pm
Posted on 10/13/14 at 7:00 pm to DelU249
One other thing that was brought up on the broadcast yesterday is that he leads the NFL in 4th quarter and OT comebacks since he's been in the league with 11. Game managers can't take over that many games like that and win them for their teams.
Posted on 10/13/14 at 7:04 pm to htran90
Ok so you think that line is just pretty damn good? Again, look at the numbers. That's awesome and he does that playing in run heavy offense AND he's a 3rd year player
This post was edited on 10/13/14 at 7:18 pm
Posted on 10/13/14 at 7:05 pm to TDawg1313
Seattle could be 0-5 without wilson, definitely 1-4
This post was edited on 10/13/14 at 7:05 pm
Posted on 10/13/14 at 7:45 pm to DelU249
quote:
3350 passing
500 plus rushing
26/9 TD:INT
101.2 rating
64% completion rating
GAME MANAGER
Alex 'Game Manager' Smith in 2013:
15 games
3313 yards passing
431 yards rushing
23/7 TD:INT
89.1 rating
60% completion
This thread should have ended with htran90's excellent post.
Could Russell Wilson be elite some day and carry the entire team on his back? - Maybe. htran90's various posts with different scenarios proves that Wilson hasn't yet proved that he can do this.
Is he elite today? - No. He is 2nd tier along with Rivers, Romo and that bunch. No amount of stats (high QB rating or Y/A) is going to disprove that. The truth is Wilson just doesn't throw enough times per game to make a claim for being 'elite'. 200 yards per game over their career for an NFL QB is Jordan Jeffersonesque. It doesn't scream elite at all. If Luck was at Seattle, do you think he'd be averaging only 200 yards a game? I think not. He has too much throwing ability to restrict him to such low numbers. Again Russell has the luxury of playing in a low-risk situation and benefits from that in terms of efficiency.
Is Russell Wilson the best of the new generation QBs?- Maybe. He and Luck are pretty close with Luck having the edge on a pure passer perspective. Wilson gets out of jams with his running ability and athleticism. Luck and Wilson could be the Manning/Brady of their generation. But please don't call him elite today. He walked into an amazing situation at Seattle much like Rothelisberger did at the Steelers. Wilson had as much contribution to the Seahawks winning the Super Bowl as much as Ben did for the Steelers. They didn't lose the rings for their team and that was important. Take that for what it is worth.
This post was edited on 10/13/14 at 7:47 pm
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