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re: Golden State is not only the greatest NBA team ever, they're the greatest sports team ever
Posted on 5/14/18 at 11:31 pm to TbirdSpur2010
Posted on 5/14/18 at 11:31 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:youre absolutely right. But as I said in an earlier post, that is a given and really doesn’t make this threadworthy at all if we’re arguing it from that angle. Generally when people talk about GOAT, they’re usually talking about accomplishments relative to peers. People still discuss Babe Ruth among the GOATs of baseball, but he doesn’t have the physical conditioning or training or skill of Bryce Harper. If you dropped him into today’s game, he isn’t taking one of Aroldis Chapman’s 103 MPH fastballs deep.
My point is that as the game has advanced, so have the athletes and caliber of play, thus necessarily making the teams of today, on average, better than the teams of yesteryear.
3
Posted on 5/14/18 at 11:35 pm to Bench McElroy
Y'all hate on the TR and SECrant every chance ya get but this is the Prisoner of the moment board. Never fails with dip shite takes.
Posted on 5/14/18 at 11:39 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
Nope. Prisoner of the moment is after 1 season or a single playoffs or something. A body of work of 4 years with winning the West and Finals games in the manner they have is more than enough basis to make a solid assessment. This is basketball, not astrophysics.
Nope it’s being captivated by the current hot team. like it or not your judgement is skewed by what you saw most recently.
quote:
Them winning back to back was never my argument. It's yours, and it's a poor one.
Sorry I can’t rank them as the greatest sports team ever if they don’t do something multiple teams have done in the last 30 years.
quote:
The Warriors are better than every one of those teams you mentioned, and you know it.
No I don’t. I don’t think they are better than the 96 Bulls or the Kobe Shaq Lakers at this time, if they win 3 straight I’ll reevaluate but at this juncture no.
quote:
None of the Spurs or Lakers' playoff runs have been as impressive as these Warriors have been so far.
The 83 76ers lost 1 playoff game and swept them defending champions in the finals.
This post was edited on 5/15/18 at 12:00 am
Posted on 5/14/18 at 11:41 pm to slackster
quote:
The 16-17 iteration of GS is the best NBA team of all time
Sorry I don’t agree, I’ll take the 95-96 Bulls all day
This post was edited on 5/14/18 at 11:43 pm
Posted on 5/14/18 at 11:44 pm to TbirdSpur2010
That 73 win team lost to the cavs and were down 3-1 to OKC before KD failed to close them out. This team without KD likely loses to Houston this series. The title last season and the title they will likely win this season are far from Organic
Posted on 5/14/18 at 11:47 pm to LL012697
quote:
If you dropped him into today’s game, he isn’t taking one of Aroldis Chapman’s 103 MPH fastballs deep.
Why not? There were guys that threw 100 back then. The biggest difference in baseball imo is the defense and specialization. Ruth might not hit .350 today but there’s no reason to think he couldn’t go yard
Posted on 5/15/18 at 12:07 am to slackster
quote:
How someone can argue for Jordan's Bulls over GS blows my mind. Nostalgia is a powerful thing.
So is recency bias.
quote:
Without actual times, plenty in here would say Carl Lewis was faster than Usain Bolt.
That’s a stupid analogy. Now if after the 2008 Olympics you had argued Bolt was the greatest track athlete of all time that would have been ridiculous. Lewis has won multiple medals over multiple Olympics. After 2016 and Bolt had won Gold in the 100-200-4x100 in 3 straight Olympics when no one else had even done that twice, then yes he can be called the greatest sprinter of all time.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 12:10 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Why not? There were guys that threw 100 back then.
Do you have a link for that? I’m not challenging you, I’m genuinely curious. There was obviously no radar back then so it’s impossible to know for sure, but everything I read said that the studies at the time had Walter Johnson throwing in the low to mid 90s, but again it wasn’t 100% accurate.
Regardless, my point still stands. He wouldn’t replicate his statistical dominance today because of the consistent skill level he would play against, but he was pretty far above everyone he played with and against in his time so he still is considered among the greatest ever. That’s generally how people look at these types of discussions. We don’t generally put these guys in a time machine and drop them into today’s game
Posted on 5/15/18 at 12:15 am to LouisianaRanger
quote:
That 73 win team lost to the cavs and were down 3-1 to OKC before KD failed to close them out. This team without KD likely loses to Houston this series. The title last season and the title they will likely win this season are far from Organic
So you're saying it's not organic to improve your team through free agency?
Again, this isn't comparable to D-Wade taking a paycut with the Heat to bring in Lebron and Bosh. Nothing about the Warriors was compromised with KD's signing.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 12:20 am to beaverfever
NBA is currently at it's weakest point. Coaching is at it's all time worst. Players squander talent by leaving college early. But most of all every talented big is injury prone.
Also the 89 Pistons puts these Warriors in a bodybag.
Also the 89 Pistons puts these Warriors in a bodybag.
This post was edited on 5/15/18 at 12:23 am
Posted on 5/15/18 at 12:21 am to LL012697
It's all peers.
You can't compare eras at all due to a myriad of factors. Style of play at the time, etc.
But to act like 10-30 years makes a huge difference among basketball players and quality is absurd.
Certain players played in different focus era. Certain eras you could mug and hold jerseys.
Human evolution doesn't work that fast. The supposed best team of all-time suddenly can't play today? With the best player of all-time? Things don't work like that.
The NBA is full of a lot of crappy teams and journeymen with Stern's desire to expand like crazy in the 90's.
You can't compare eras at all due to a myriad of factors. Style of play at the time, etc.
But to act like 10-30 years makes a huge difference among basketball players and quality is absurd.
Certain players played in different focus era. Certain eras you could mug and hold jerseys.
Human evolution doesn't work that fast. The supposed best team of all-time suddenly can't play today? With the best player of all-time? Things don't work like that.
The NBA is full of a lot of crappy teams and journeymen with Stern's desire to expand like crazy in the 90's.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 12:24 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:I want to agree but they didn’t even understand the value of the three point basket 25 years ago.
NBA is currently at it's weakest point. Coaching is at it's worst. Players squander talent by leaving college early. But most of all every talented big is injury prone.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 12:27 am to beaverfever
quote:they did but elite big men were just more valuable.
I want to agree but they didn’t even understand the value of the three point basket 25 years ago.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 12:34 am to beaverfever
quote:
I want to agree but they didn’t even understand the value of the three point basket 25 years ago.
they averaged the same amount of points 25 years ago per game as today
the chucking up of 3s in todays game has made the pickup basketball nba kind of boring to watch.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 12:35 am to VerlanderBEAST
Jerry West would shoot from that far out all the time and it was only worth 2 points.
He was bombing away and doing Steph Curry before Stephy Curry.
And then he said, it's impossible to defend NBA players today without hand-checking - which the NBA banned in 1992.
Jerry West said everyone has a free run to the basket.
He was bombing away and doing Steph Curry before Stephy Curry.
And then he said, it's impossible to defend NBA players today without hand-checking - which the NBA banned in 1992.
Jerry West said everyone has a free run to the basket.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 12:43 am to LL012697
quote:
There was obviously no radar back then so it’s impossible to know for sure
Ok I can concede that but it’s not like Chapmanbor whoever throws nothing but 100 on ever pitch. Where people go overboard in threads like this is human evolution has not advanced in 50 year. Our knowledge about exercise and diet have and now pro athletes can train year round in the 20s those guys had regular jobs in the off season. Hell as late as the 70s some did.
quote:
He wouldn’t replicate his statistical dominance today
He hit 60 HR in 1927, that’s more than ever other AL team
no one will ever come close to that. But I see no reason to think he couldn’t hit well even today given some time to adjust. quote:
but he was pretty far above everyone he played with and against in his time so he still is considered among the greatest ever. That’s generally how people look at these types of discussions. We don’t generally put these guys in a time machine and drop them into today’s game
I completely agree and you are 100% agree that if all we are saying is today’s athletes are better then it’s a pointless argument. I can’t put GS as one of the best teams ever until they win multiple titles. If they had won the year they went 73-9 I could see an argument for best single season team just like the 16-0 Pats but they didn’t. So I cannot put that team up there.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 12:51 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
That’s a stupid analogy.
It isn't.
It highlights the idea that even though we have factual evidence that Bolt and his peers are faster than Carl Lewis, plenty of 40 somethings would day Lewis was faster than Bolt.
Carl Lewis wouldn't have made the podium in the 2008 Olympics, yet 17 years prior he broke the world record in the 100m.
If you dropped this Warriors team off in any era, they'd beat the best of the best. You can argue it's because of advancements in medicine or training or whatever, but they're built in such a way that they could compete and win often in any era.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 12:51 am to beaverfever
quote:
they didn’t even understand the value of the three point basket 25 years ago
That’s not entirely true. Rick Pitino talked about it in the 90s butThey had different rules that made it harder to run the same style they do now.
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:14 am to slackster
quote:
t isn't. It highlights the idea that even though we have factual evidence that Bolt and his peers are faster than Carl Lewis, plenty of 40 somethings would day Lewis was faster than Bolt.
That’s just a silly straw man argument you are making.
quote:.
Carl Lewis wouldn't have made the podium in the 2008 Olympics, yet 17 years prior he broke the world record in the 100m
This proves your recency bias Lewis’ PR in the 100 was 9.86. The Silver medalist in 2008 ran 9.89. Lewis ran that 9.86 in 1991 at age 30. In 2016 a week or 2 before turning 30 Bolt won the 100 at 9.81. In the 200 Lewis best is 19.75 silver in 2008 was 19.96. And he ran 19.80 in 84 So try again
quote:
If you dropped this Warriors team off in any era, they'd beat the best of the best. You can argue it's because of advancements in medicine or training
The advances in training and medicine apply up until about 1980 or so but not so much in the last 30’years and i doubt their style would work in the 90s. Curry is perfect for this era not sure he’s as effective with 90s rules. Durant would be fine but Jordan and Pippen would be just fine in this era and some of their shooters like Kerr would probably be better. It’s certainly debatable who would win
ETA medical advances help players recover from injury sooner and also play at a high level longer.
This post was edited on 5/15/18 at 1:33 am
Posted on 5/15/18 at 1:56 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
It's all peers.
You can't compare eras at all due to a myriad of factors. Style of play at the time, etc.
But to act like 10-30 years makes a huge difference among basketball players and quality is absurd.
Certain players played in different focus era. Certain eras you could mug and hold jerseys.
Human evolution doesn't work that fast. The supposed best team of all-time suddenly can't play today? With the best player of all-time? Things don't work like that.
The NBA is full of a lot of crappy teams and journeymen with Stern's desire to expand like crazy in the 90's.
Good post. Modern training and medicine only gives today's players a slight edge but it doesn't put them head and shoulders above athletes from the 80s and 90s. A lot of those guys were freak athletes that could dominate in today's game just as easily. Also, just knowledge on how to play the game is often more important than physical ability. Guys like Jordan, Magic, Bird, Malone, Stockton, Isaiah Thomas, Olajuwan, Payton, were highly skilled at playing the game of basketball and that's part of what made them great, not that they were physically better than everyone else.
Look at Tom Brady in the NFL. He's arguably the best ever at his position but certainly not because he's the most physically gifted QB of all time. Neither was Montana.
Skill has a lot more to do with greatness than athleticism and that is something that I believe can transcend eras.
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