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re: Formula 1 2021 Season Thread

Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:40 pm to
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
84957 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:40 pm to
And they just asked Ham “If we PIT under safety, do you want Med or Hard”
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
78302 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:42 pm to
But he would have had to give up track position with 5 laps to go?

It would take a miracle like the race director circumventing the procedures to lose that lead....
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
84957 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:44 pm to
quote:

But he would have had to give up track position with 5 laps to go?


I’m saying if Checo hadn’t done his job and decreased that, Merc would have reacted to RB and Ham would have been on a fresher set of tires.

They just had the first VSC and here comes Max for his new hards. Ham was up 5.8 at this point. Lap 37
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
78302 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:45 pm to
quote:

Merc would have reacted to RB and Ham would have been on a fresher set of tires.


Reacted to him how?
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
30388 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:46 pm to
quote:

I think because it was on the straight, not in the braking zone it was ok, according to some stuff I read on Reddit. Once you get to the braking zone, you need to pick a line.


You have that but on the straight Max was being proactive, not reactive. He wasn't weaving to block. Lewis wasn't trying to pass then only stay in his slipstream. Had Lewis pulled out to attempt a pass and max made a double move then he is infringing the rules. What he did was fine.

Lewis screwed up going into turn one and didn't protect the inside. You have to protect that line with someone bearing down on you tire deg be damned. YOu have to force them the long way around and they can't take the racing line anyway since you will be in their preferred post apex line. Second when the championship is literally on the line in the last race you don't want someone making a banzai run to the inside, if they wash wide and take you or both of you out you have to pray the powers that be take his points for the year. If they both crash out Max wins the championship. You need him on the outside so if he washes wide he only takes himself off the track.

That was a very un-7x move.

The more I have rewound the season in my mind the more comfortable I am with the outcome. I don't think the first lap incident would have changed the outcome had Lewis been forced to give up more time or the place but I do think there were plenty of questionable calls both ways over the course of the year that Max is a fair winner, even though he was clearly slower on race pace today.

Just hoping the new regs shake up the field. Actually just hoping the red cars are 2 seconds a lap faster and than the rest of the field and I can enjoy hearing the Italian anthem again and watch a 5-way fight for best loser.
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
84957 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:47 pm to
quote:

Reacted to him how?


PIT, lap 37 Max just PIT for his new hards and they told Lewis to stay out because the gap was only 5.8 at this point.

Had he been up 17 seconds, like he would have without Checo, Ham would be on a new set of mediums with 20 laps left no matter what they did with the last SC.
Posted by ell_13
Member since Apr 2013
87962 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:47 pm to
Again, the mistake was Ham not pitting when Max pitted. He had the time. He had the speed. The conservative play was to stick to what Max was doing knowing how much better the car was. Allowing Max to be on better tires was a gamble.
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
78302 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:48 pm to
quote:

Ham would be on a new set of mediums with 20 laps left no matter what they did with the last SC.




So you think Lewis would have held Max off on fresh softs?
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
84957 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:49 pm to
quote:

Again, the mistake was Ham not pitting when Max pitted.


Exactly and the reason they didn’t was because the gap was close thanks to Checo.


Had Ham come in, he would have been on new Mediums with 20 laps to go, even with Max on softs at the very end, Ham would have likely been able to hold off Max with how well he does with tires and his raw skill.
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
78302 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:49 pm to
quote:

Again, the mistake was Ham not pitting when Max pitted. He had the time. He had the speed.


Max wouldn't have pitted. He would have gained track position.
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
84957 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:50 pm to
quote:

So you think Lewis would have held Max off on fresh softs?


Yes, did you see how bad he left Max in the dust the first 5 laps of the race when Max was on the softs and he was on the mediums?
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
78302 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:51 pm to
I saw Max catch him going into turn 5 (6?) despite Hamilton having the lead out the previous corner.

RBR was better on the softs than Merc was on the mediums.
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
84957 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:51 pm to
quote:

Max wouldn't have pitted. He would have gained track position.


RB pulled the trigger first. Ham would have been up 17 seconds and PIT the next go around on lap 38 and only lost 10 seconds under VSC.
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
78302 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:53 pm to
quote:

and PIT the next go around on lap 38 and only lost 10 seconds under VSC.


That has been the question I have wanted answered. Where was Hamilton when the VSC ended?

That is the only spot I have thought Merc dropped the ball. Just didn't know if the VSC was done when he rounded through the marina section.
This post was edited on 12/12/21 at 8:54 pm
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
30388 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:54 pm to
quote:

Ahh yea. Feel like I need to rewatch the race now with the context of the ending


I've watched it nose to tail 4 times today. I'll probably rewatch the whole season instead of a lot of the low-end bowl games. I never delete a season until the next season starts. Partly because I always rewatch and partly because one of my buddies will make some argument I need to footage to refute.

I often wonder why F1 doesn't sell copies of the old seasons, not just recaps but full seasons maybe even include qualy. I would literally buy every season they released. I loved it a couple of years Speed got permission to replay the races from the season 10 years before and they ran one a week throughout the season. It is amazing how much I had forgotten.
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
84957 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:54 pm to
quote:

That has been the question I have wanted answered. Where was Hamilton when the VSC ended?


Lap 39 he is up by 15.8… VSC just ended.

Max on new hards and Ham still on his used hards.

ETA: Announcers are discussing why Merc didn’t bring in Hamilton and Merc saying possibly giving up position…

Which is why I’m saying, without Checo, no doubt Merc would have brought him in then and Max/Ham been on same tire life
This post was edited on 12/12/21 at 8:56 pm
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
78302 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:55 pm to
That was my biggest gripe.

Lewis still loses on the SC later, but I was wondering how bad they missed the VSC.
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
84957 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:58 pm to
quote:

Lewis still loses on the SC later, but I was wondering how bad they missed the VSC.


That’s the stop I’m talking about, the VSC at lap 37

Now Checo would have played 0 part in the final PIT because of the SC where Max got the softs.

But Ham would have been on Mediums with 15 laps of running prior to the SC and max on softs with none.

I think Ham would have held off Max… just my opinion.
This post was edited on 12/12/21 at 8:59 pm
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
78302 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 9:00 pm to
quote:


I think Ham would have held off Max… just my opinion


The only way he held him off on lap one was by cutting the corner.

He wouldn't have held him off.

Maybe if both were on mediums Lewis had a chance. RBR has been superior on the softest tires the last 5 races.
This post was edited on 12/12/21 at 9:01 pm
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
84957 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 9:06 pm to
quote:

The only way he held him off on lap one was by cutting the corner.


But that was a standing start. Lewis would have had the rolling start.

Nonetheless, we will never know because Merc gambled and lost. Had it not been for Checo, we may have known as Merc would have stopped and put some new tires on Ham at lap 38.
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