re: For people who always thought Dirk was a GHAZI

Hakeem would have never gotten his hardware if Jordan wouldn't have left to play baseball.

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Hakeem would have never gotten his hardware if Jordan wouldn't have left to play baseball.

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I'm not saying Hakeem is better than Jordan or that the Rockets were better than some of those Bulls teams, but Jordan never had to defeat a dominant center. I really wish we could've seen that Finals matchup. If the Rockets ever had a damn PG and didn't get undressed by Stockton in the Conference Finals every year we would've been able to see it.

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Team accomplishments aren't a measure of how good an individual player is.

Furthermore, success in post season play involves A LOT of luck and other factors that are beyond a player's control.

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To be a good player, yea hardware doesn’t matter. To be mentioned in the same breath as the top 15-20 players in history, you need some hardware IMO. And this is moreso in basketball than any other sport where one player can dictate more than any other sport.

Yea there’s some luck involved in all sports, but a player on the GOAT category should be able to overcome bad luck for atleast one ring. I’m not saying he needs to go on a Bill Russell championship run, but he needs one. I’m a big Dirk fan, but he’s not top 15-20 without a ring.

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That's just intellectually lazy. Period.

I guess Ted Williams can't be considered one of the greatest baseball players ever.

Patrick Ewing isn't one of the greatest centers ever.

Stockton and Malone? Can't because they don't have rings.

You have to look beyond all of the "easy" nonsense and do some real analysis and thinking.

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Like I said, my “must have hardware” argument is mainly for basketball; it’s completely different in baseball and football where there’s so much more a player can’t control.

Patrick Ewing is a very good center. Is he a GOAT center? Possibly, he might be top 5. He’s not one of the top 15-20 players though which is what we’re discussing.

Karl Malone is arguably the greatest regular season power forward of all-time. However, how someone could say that he doesn’t have trouble winning the big game is beyond me. And no Stockton is nowhere near a top 15-20 player.

Again, this isn’t for every single player and it’s not for every single sport. It’s for the top 15-20 in basketball, a sport where one player can take over a game and win by himself. Ewing, Malone and Stockton are extremely good players, but they’re not top 15-20 GOATers. I’d like to see your top 15-20 list or anyone’s and see if there are any individuals on there without rings. I’d really be curious if you could think of one.

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I’d like to see your top 15-20 list or anyone’s and see if there are any individuals on there without rings. I’d really be curious if you could think of one.

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Pete Maravich.

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Jordan played baseball, instead of just sitting around and being suspended from the NBA for gambling,

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This might be the first post of yours that I completely disagree with.

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I’d like to see your top 15-20 list or anyone’s and see if there are any individuals on there without rings. I’d really be curious if you could think of one.

Pete Maravich.

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OMG

That just happened

Speechless

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Gimme one to start my team with right now and I take Durant. But Gimme one for this playoff year and I take Dirk; he's playing incredible right now.

Dirk has been the best player in the playoffs this year,

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For all of the bandwagon Dirk fans-he isn't doing anything more than what he has always done.

With the exception of the one year where he made it to the Finals, he has always killed in the playoffs and most of every regular season.

25.6 and 10.7 & they FELL after Sunday's game! LINK

I have been on here defending him for years while everyone snickered.

As I said in all of my posts about him, "If you don't see him play every night, I guess there's no way you can understand just how good he is."

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After all is said and done, you really think Nash is better than Dirk?

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Not going to get into this argument but I do know even though Dirk was good with when they played together, he is better now because Nash left.

He might not have ever developed an inside game if Nash had stayed.

They both improved with the split. They both had to learn to do more things, They both are better all-around players because they lost a "crutch".

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I think you do not understand the meaning of GOAT. GOAT is greatest of all-time. The three centers in the discussion for GOAT are Kareem, Wilt, and Russell. Shaq and Olajuwon are likely fourth and fifth, depending on which order you prefer. Ewing is not top five, regardless of rings or not. Those five centers were all better than Patrick Ewing.

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I know what GOAT means, it was simply a typo; I meant to say “one of”. Also, I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, there are four centers in that discussion. Hakeem is absolutely on par with Kareem, Wilt and Russell. Yea Ewing isn’t a top 5 guy after looking at the names you mentioned; I was simply going quickly off the top of my head and said he might be a top 5 guy, but I can now absolutely say he’s not.

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No individual has won a title by himself, so to speak. Iverson could not do it, neither could Kobe, nor could Lebron. Sure, someone can go off for a game or maybe, maybe even a series, but every superstar needs help.

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Agreed, but all players in the argument for GOAT at their position have been able to elevate the game of their teammates enough atleast for one playoff season and win a title. Can you think of a guy in the discussion for GOAT at his position who didn’t win?

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It sounds to me as if there is a cutoff to enter the top 20 where you have to have a ring to be allowed. Where did you arrive with this arbitrary number? So, is Malone 21?

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It’s definitely arbitrary but it works when you make out your list. Do it, you won’t have anyone in your top 15-20 who hasn’t won. My highest was around 23.