re: Favorite fighter (boxer or mma) of all time

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Roy Jones Jr. Dude knocked someone out with a liver shot.

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Actually he did it twice. Here is the one most people remember:

LINK

Not to be that guy... but that one was a kidney shot

Roy Jones jr
Anderson Silva

Vitali Klitschko is the most dominant fighter ever

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Dude was never technical. At all. He never had to be. He was simple the most gifted fighter of all time.

Can't be touched.

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He couldn't be touched....until he hit like 34 and got touched by every meddling journeyman fighter and all their cousins. And why? Because he wasn't technical And, really, to say he "wasn't technical" is to be put it REALLY nicely. Dude didn't throw jabs. Come. On.

He was probably the most fun to watch in his prime, but isn't Bernard Hopkins better than him? If you don't think so, I'd like to hear you advance that argument.

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He couldn't be touched....until he hit like 34 and got touched by every meddling journeyman fighter and all their cousins. And why? Because he wasn't technical And, really, to say he "wasn't technical" is to be put it REALLY nicely. Dude didn't throw jabs. Come. On.

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Yes to all of the above. The weight gain to get the heavyweight belt then quick weight loss plus age made him touchable when he got into his mid 30's. When he lost the blinding speed he became hitable. But before then, he just went out there and whipped everyone's arse, typically in dramatic fashion, and he did it his way. No technical boxing whatsoever, just jumped in and out of range in front of people and knocked the piss out of them almost at will. So, yeah, when the superior athletic ability went, he did not have the technical skills to remain viable. But he was something else in his prime and just unreal to watch toy with world class fighters.

As for being better than Bernard Hopkins, I say yes he was. He beat him relatively easily when they first fought and he claimed his hand was broken prior to the fight as well. Hopkins won a unanimous decision rematch, but that was 20 years into Roy's career and 17 years after the first fight when Roy was no longer Roy.

The 1960s version of Cassius Clay (aka Muhammad Ali) is the the most magnificent athlete that there's ever been. It's as if he actually existed in the 2060s, but somehow got dropped by a time machine into the previous century by accident. He was just soooo much better than anybody else, or anybody who had come before him. Really, it was as if he was playing a different sport.

It was so easy for him that the guy, in his last fight before his ban took effect against Zora Folley, was was doing virtualy nothing but throwing pullback counter rights. Which, to be clear, is a borderline insulting punch to throw at another professional fighter. And yet...





As of that last fight in the 60s, you could have counted on one hand the number of direct power shots he had taken to the face over the entirety of his pro career. He literally wasn't getting hit. Not even by the likes of Sonny Liston. Go back and watch that first fight in Miami. It's a masterpiece. Clay v. Liston, Round 1

If you don't have a couple free minutes, these three seconds are representative:



It actually bugs me that the 70s version of the man is the subject of such nostalgia and fondness when the 60s version was a way WAY better boxer. As in, had he not been banned he would have likely fought Frazier in '68, or '69 at the latest. That fight would not have been competitive. Read that last sentence again. Marinate on it. Come to terms with its veracity. He would have made him look amateurish;


Honorable Mentions:
Aaron Pryor
Prime Manny Pacquiao
Ray Leonard

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But before then, he just went out there and whipped everyone's arse, typically in dramatic fashion, and he did it his way. No technical boxing whatsoever, just jumped in and out of range in front of people and knocked the piss out of them almost at will. So, yeah, when the superior athletic ability went, he did not have the technical skills to remain viable. But he was something else in his prime and just unreal to watch toy with world class fighters

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I agree with this. I love me some boxing, even boxed competitively myself for a time, and appreciate the rich history of the sport, but I'm not one of these "get off my lawn" / "defense wins championships" types. Not only do I appreciate fighters who have a style that is all their own, but I think fighters are better off if they do have a style that's uniquely theirs. And if RJJ can dominate boxing across multiple weight classes for well over a decade without throwing jabs, then by all means, do your thing Roy.

That being said, when you don't throw jabs -- like, at all -- you've gotta be more than just a little bit faster than your opponent. You better have some x-men mutant type quickness. And he did. Which is why he was so damn fun to watch. And why most people (myself included) were shocked when he just completely fell off a cliff. But in hindsight we probably shouldn't have been surprised. What was inevitable is that as soon as that guy lost even a half a step, he was dunzo. It wasn't an "if"question as he kept on fighting past his prime -- as virtually all fighters do -- it was when.

With RJJ, I see it slightly differently. His biggest flaw was he never had an iron chin or the ability to survive a war.

In his prime, he had good skill combined with great athleticism. That was enough for him to never have his chin/ability to take heavy damage tested.

He was never lacking in skill, but when the athleticism declined, he wasn't so incredibly skilled that he could avoid damage any more. When he had to take damage, it exposed his biggest weakness.