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re: ESPN 30 for 30: O.J. Made In America
Posted on 6/16/16 at 12:43 pm to Goldrush25
Posted on 6/16/16 at 12:43 pm to Goldrush25
and the fact that a bunch of black people in los angeles circa 1994 truly thought the police were out to get black people and that the whole situation was a set up by the LAPD
2
Posted on 6/16/16 at 12:45 pm to BilJ
quote:
it only showed if you have the means to pay for a dream team of representation then you can beat the system
Even w/ the dream team he probably is still convicted if the police / forensics experts didn't make critical errors in the collection and transportation of evidence, the prosecution didn't have some unfortunate screw ups, and the detective who found key evidence wasn't caught on tape talking about how he liked to frame blacks while using the n word a million times. It was really a perfect storm for the defense.
Posted on 6/16/16 at 12:47 pm to Arkansasrazorback
quote:this is probably what tipped the scale. just a truly remarkable shite show
and the detective who found key evidence wasn't caught on tape talking about how he liked to frame blacks while using the n word a million times
Posted on 6/16/16 at 12:49 pm to WestCoastAg
amazing he's turned that into being a law expert on Fox News
Posted on 6/16/16 at 12:53 pm to Rou Leed
People here are looking at the celebrations in the light of today's social media explosion & all the information available as something happens. Back then, one of the main sources of information for the black communities came from the black religious groups, & it's obvious with just the 3-4 examples shown in the film where they all stood. Too, after watching the entire documentary, there were two common responses: " I don't care. I KNOW he is innocent" and "it's payback time, baby !". As well, the pure hate for LAPD, seeing it get its arse kicked in court, that alone was reason for many to celebrate. As for the verdict itself: suffice to say, one of the jurors was a former Black Panther, something that came out only after the trial. Four jurors showed up at the post verdict party at O.J's house later that day.
Posted on 6/16/16 at 12:54 pm to WestCoastAg
My opinion the biggest mistake was made by the DA in selecting the trial location. OJ lived in Brentwood and a jury of his peers should have been selected from Brentwood. Nobody that lived in that neighborhood would have believed the police set him up because they knew police had barbecues at his house and gave him the good old boy treatment on many domestic violence calls. That guy wanted to convict OJ in a black district for his own political gain. Bad idea bro.
Posted on 6/16/16 at 1:01 pm to Rou Leed
quote:
That guy wanted to convict OJ in a black district for his own political gain. Bad idea bro.
Seemed to work out for him, plus his son is now the mayor of L.A.
Posted on 6/16/16 at 1:03 pm to East Coast Band
"I just don't see O.J. killing over a woman"? There are examples after examples of when he would fly into rages...all over Nicole's perceived misbehaving with another male...and his face was "unrecognizable". Then, like magic, the O.J. face would return. He killed them both first, then went back & butchered them both, the graphic pictures mentioned here showing how her neck was almost completely severed & his neck had a huge open gash in it, along with multiple stab wounds. People are seeing only the celebrity O.J. As the documentary comes to prove, through multiple sources, many of them former friends, that O.J. was all an act. Was the O.J. whose voice was clearly heard on the 911 tapes sound like someone capable of killing in a rage?
Posted on 6/16/16 at 1:06 pm to WestCoastAg
The charge of murder was irrelevant. We're talking about people that have been made to feel absolutely helpless when it came to dealing with any type of law for years and years.
They had just watched a Korean woman get off with probation for murdering a 13 yr old black girl that was filmed plain as day on videotape.
Then the Rodney King videotape is launched on National TV for the world to see what they had been trying to get out to the world what was really going on between the police & the black community only to watch them get away with it.
They wanted to see a man with their same skin color actually win no matter the charge.
They had just watched a Korean woman get off with probation for murdering a 13 yr old black girl that was filmed plain as day on videotape.
Then the Rodney King videotape is launched on National TV for the world to see what they had been trying to get out to the world what was really going on between the police & the black community only to watch them get away with it.
They wanted to see a man with their same skin color actually win no matter the charge.
Posted on 6/16/16 at 1:07 pm to Keltic Tiger
quote:Gor what? I don't feel a connection with other white people. Those police were morons. I don't like them and think the ones that are pieces of shite...are pieces of shite.
"it's payback time, baby !"
White people aren't one group. All whites aren't "my people." But black people then made this white vs black. It was black vs police. Why did white people need payback? The Rodney King thing was fricked up and so was the OJ thing. Now we're sitting here with 2 frickups and nothing fixed. Real great.
Police didn't lose, did they? Nicole and that other dude's family lost. Black people were celebrating a girl whose head got almost sliced off getting zero justice.
Posted on 6/16/16 at 1:13 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
If you don't understand now you will never understand. I think it's just best to leave it at that.
I want to understand though. Up to this point they've made it clear that most "supporters" thought OJ was actually innocent. That is crazy talk, but if you're not informed or misinformed, that is perfectly understandable. Hell, I can live with someone who thought he was actually innocent solely because of his race.
My question and perhaps my misunderstanding is that the OJ case and reaction always seems to be framed as a victory over racial injustice, but so far the documentary has implied that black people actually believed he was innocent because he was black and they could easily see the cops framing him. That is profoundly different than celebrating a black man getting away with a crime. Maybe I've been wrong the whole time.
ETA: I can fully understand celebrating OJ getting off because you thought he was innocent, regardless of your motives for that belief. I'm having a hard time understanding celebrating OJ getting off if you think he got away with murder. There is a huge difference.
This post was edited on 6/16/16 at 1:21 pm
Posted on 6/16/16 at 1:38 pm to slackster
quote:
want to understand though. Up to this point they've made it clear that most "supporters" thought OJ was actually innocent. That is crazy talk, but if you're not informed or misinformed, that is perfectly understandable. Hell, I can live with someone who thought he was actually innocent solely because of his race
I don't think a lot of people cared about the details or weighted them the same. A lot of black people wanted him very much to be innocent, so they illuminated the factors of the case that pointed towards reasonable doubt and minimized or completely disregarded facts that would indicate guilt. It was a type of confirmation bias. We all know that this thought process is very common.
I mean ideally you remove emotion completely and judge the facts for what they are but that was always going to be an extremely difficult task for the prosecution.
This post was edited on 6/16/16 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 6/16/16 at 1:39 pm to slackster
Ok, I'm going to try and explain this in terms of my parents experience, as I was too young to fully grasp it.
Both my parents followed the case and both thought he was guilty based on evidence alone. But as they watched the trial and watched the prosecution bumble along, I remember my mom saying, "They're screwing this up, OJ can get off".
My dad promptly laughed, He said, "There's no way he's getting off, they can screw this up six ways to Sunday and he'll still get convicted. He's a black man, who's accused of murdering two white people. They can have no evidence and they'll still convict him".
That was the mindset of most black people in that era. Nothing about the justice system was fair. There was no benefit of the doubt given to us.
Both my parents followed the case and both thought he was guilty based on evidence alone. But as they watched the trial and watched the prosecution bumble along, I remember my mom saying, "They're screwing this up, OJ can get off".
My dad promptly laughed, He said, "There's no way he's getting off, they can screw this up six ways to Sunday and he'll still get convicted. He's a black man, who's accused of murdering two white people. They can have no evidence and they'll still convict him".
That was the mindset of most black people in that era. Nothing about the justice system was fair. There was no benefit of the doubt given to us.
Posted on 6/16/16 at 1:40 pm to slackster
quote:The reason you can't understand is because you never had to see a person that looks like you in pictures hanging from a tree because some racists felt like they needed to die. You have never had a family member hosed down in the streets of Birmingham because they marched for their rights. You have never seen a person that looks like you beaten by police because of the color of their skin. You have never had someone you love get sentenced to prison for possession of crack, but a white person gets community service for the possession of cocaine. You haven't had to live that life so you will never understand.
I want to understand though. Up to this point they've made it clear that most "supporters" thought OJ was actually innocent. That is crazy talk, but if you're not informed or misinformed, that is perfectly understandable. Hell, I can live with someone who thought he was actually innocent solely because of his race.
My question and perhaps my misunderstanding is that the OJ case and reaction always seems to be framed as a victory over racial injustice, but so far the documentary has implied that black people actually believed he was innocent because he was black and they could easily see the cops framing him. That is profoundly different than celebrating a black man getting away with a crime. Maybe I've been wrong the whole time.
ETA: I can fully understand celebrating OJ getting off because you thought he was innocent, regardless of your motives for that belief. I'm having a hard time understanding celebrating OJ getting off if you think he got away with murder. There is a huge difference.
Posted on 6/16/16 at 1:43 pm to slackster
Posted on 6/16/16 at 1:48 pm to RDRGeaux09
quote:
Both my parents followed the case and both thought he was guilty based on evidence alone. But as they watched the trial and watched the prosecution bumble along, I remember my mom saying, "They're screwing this up, OJ can get off".
My dad promptly laughed, He said, "There's no way he's getting off, they can screw this up six ways to Sunday and he'll still get convicted. He's a black man, who's accused of murdering two white people. They can have no evidence and they'll still convict him".
That was the mindset of most black people in that era. Nothing about the justice system was fair. There was no benefit of the doubt given to us.
and I understand that, but I'll still never agree with celebrating in the streets over a guy getting off you know deep down brutally murdered two people. Seems like a pretty shallow victory.
Posted on 6/16/16 at 1:49 pm to BilJ
quote:It is, but along the way blacks have taken some very painful defeats along the way.
and I understand that, but I'll still never agree with celebrating in the streets over a guy getting off you know deep down brutally murdered two people. Seems like a pretty shallow victory.
Posted on 6/16/16 at 1:51 pm to MontyFranklyn
quote:
The reason you can't understand is because you never had to see a person that looks like you in pictures hanging from a tree because some racists felt like they needed to die. You have never had a family member hosed down in the streets of Birmingham because they marched for their rights. You have never seen a person that looks like you beaten by police because of the color of their skin. You have never had someone you love get sentenced to prison for possession of crack, but a white person gets community service for the possession of cocaine. You haven't had to live that life so you will never understand.
So were they celebrating because a black man who was framed by the police was found innocent or were the celebrating because a black man got away with the murder of two white people? If it was the former, fine. If it is the latter, tell me how that makes what you said any better, particularly in the long run? On what planet does more injustice make up for previous injustices?
So far the documentary seems to use previous injustices as the reason why blacks thought he was actually innocent - because they were mistreated by the LAPD and the justice system so often, it was perfectly reasonable to think the same had happened to OJ. That makes a lot of sense and I fully comprehend the rationale behind it.
However, if you think OJ was guilty and you just want to see a black man get away with the murder of two white people, as if it does anything to make up for Rodney King and years of other injustices, you've lost me. More importantly, that kind of mentality is detrimental to race relations in the long run.
Posted on 6/16/16 at 1:53 pm to BilJ
quote:
and I understand that, but I'll still never agree with celebrating in the streets over a guy getting off you know deep down brutally murdered two people. Seems like a pretty shallow victory.
That's not how the mind works.
People that didn't want him to be guilty never ingested the facts the way a relatively disinterested individual did. So quite literally they didn't know deep down he was guilty because they never allowed themselves to get to that point.
Posted on 6/16/16 at 1:55 pm to BilJ
It wasn't about celebrating that. It was about seeing, for the first time, the justice system act the way it was intended to act for a black person.
The prosecution's job was to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that OJ killed them. They failed to do that in the mind of the jury. The defense provided enough testimony to give the jurors pause. That's how things are suppose to work.
Black people have never seen that side of the justice system work until the OJ trial
The prosecution's job was to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that OJ killed them. They failed to do that in the mind of the jury. The defense provided enough testimony to give the jurors pause. That's how things are suppose to work.
Black people have never seen that side of the justice system work until the OJ trial
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