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re: Could in the prime Mike Tyson be unified world champ today?
Posted on 2/18/12 at 10:44 pm to Jake88
Posted on 2/18/12 at 10:44 pm to Jake88
quote:
I haven't followed boxing much since 2002, but my impression remains that European fighters are heartless and fold under pressure. See Golota and some of the Klitchko's performance
That's why I thought - Tyson 80's prime...if he walks in the ring...no socks, still terrifying, undefeated...feeling invincible...and the Klitchko's are flying over from Russia to meet this kid...the matchup problem doesn't matter...1st round bully Tyson ate up any size - arm length advantage. That's why Buster's effort was so Superhuman...my mom just died, I've been a failure...I just don't give a frick tonight about this invincible kid. If the Klitchko's face Tyson before that mental wall is broken down...I don't think they'd have much of a shot. Boxing is a mental game too.
1
Posted on 2/18/12 at 10:47 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
Buster's effort was so Superhuman
Not sure about this. Tyson lost this fight cause he got rid of Rooney. He had zero focus. Not to take away from what Buster did, But Tyson lost it more than Buster won it. If TYSON had the proper focus he crushes Buster.
Posted on 2/18/12 at 10:53 pm to dukke v
Well it goes hand in hand.
True, Buster needed a Tyson slipping...but Tyson still had everything else going for him...the concept of beating Iron Mike was unfathomable. Buster was aided by not meeting Tyson at his best...but Buster still needed the mental fortitude to break through that barrier that no other fighter could do. At that time, half-arse Tyson could still beat most anyone simply by showing up...the other fighter had already lost before he stepped into the ring. Tyson was not the greatest fighter we've ever seen but he was probably the greatest bully along with Liston. Most fighters barely even bothered to stand up to Tyson...Douglas did...weathered the storm early...and found that Tyson wasn't in prime ability.
True, Buster needed a Tyson slipping...but Tyson still had everything else going for him...the concept of beating Iron Mike was unfathomable. Buster was aided by not meeting Tyson at his best...but Buster still needed the mental fortitude to break through that barrier that no other fighter could do. At that time, half-arse Tyson could still beat most anyone simply by showing up...the other fighter had already lost before he stepped into the ring. Tyson was not the greatest fighter we've ever seen but he was probably the greatest bully along with Liston. Most fighters barely even bothered to stand up to Tyson...Douglas did...weathered the storm early...and found that Tyson wasn't in prime ability.
Posted on 2/18/12 at 10:56 pm to Zamoro10
Did you see the idiots in Tyson's corner that fight? They used a rubber glove for an ice pack......A RUBBER GLOVE?! The whole thing leading up to that fight was a joke. You have tyson with rooney for any fight and I take tyson in the fight.
Posted on 2/18/12 at 10:58 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
but Tyson still had everything else going for him.
Yes he did, but not having the same people around him that he had in the past hurt.
quote:
but Buster still needed the mental fortitude to break through that barrier that no other fighter could do.
I will agree with this.
quote:
At that time, half-arse Tyson could still beat most anyone simply by showing up...the other fighter had already lost before he stepped into the ring. Tyson was not the greatest fighter we've ever seen but he was probably the greatest bully
There is NO debate here.
quote:And that was TYSONS fault.
.and found that Tyson wasn't in prime ability.
Posted on 2/18/12 at 11:01 pm to burgeman
I'm not arguing with you...pre-Douglas Tyson...I don't think he has any problem at all with the Russians...matchup issues or not.
Hypo: He trains with Rooney...post Douglas/Holyfield...and is in prime form...I think he has issues with the Russians. It becomes a boxing match...which it never was when Tyson had that aura.
Hypo: He trains with Rooney...post Douglas/Holyfield...and is in prime form...I think he has issues with the Russians. It becomes a boxing match...which it never was when Tyson had that aura.
Posted on 2/18/12 at 11:09 pm to Zamoro10
The James tillis fight gives a small sample of what Tyson can do in a boxing/technical match with a taller opponent. He did well in the fight but struggled at times because it was his first full fight.
Posted on 2/18/12 at 11:09 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
.I think he has issues with the Russians.
As a GREAT MIND fighter ALI was. How does he do against these guys in HIS prime???? YES A BOXING match does not favor Tyson against the Russians, But I doubt it would go that far. Now ALI would toy with them round after round. But its a shame that doing that later in his career, aka the rope-A-dope. Has cost him dearly.
Posted on 2/18/12 at 11:22 pm to dukke v
This thread makes me remember how much I used to love boxing and how much it sucks now. 
The 80's feels like the swan song of the sport in retrospect.
The 80's feels like the swan song of the sport in retrospect.
Posted on 2/18/12 at 11:24 pm to burgeman
Klitschkos beat Tyson, even in his prime. The style that steward developed for Lennox Lewis at he end of his career that he brought to the Klitschkos is specifically designed for the taller, bigger fighters to keep the fight at a distance. It's the reason why smaller heavyweights under 230 lbs (like prime Tyson & Holyfield) or irrelevant in today's HW division. It's what killed the HW division and it did so because it WORKS! It would've worked against a smaller Tyson too.
Posted on 2/18/12 at 11:28 pm to Jamohn
quote:
Yup. frickin Steward ruined the HW division forever with that shite.
This, this, and more this
Posted on 2/18/12 at 11:28 pm to Jamohn
Double Post
This post was edited on 2/18/12 at 11:29 pm
Posted on 2/18/12 at 11:28 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
This thread makes me remember how much I used to love boxing and how much it sucks now.
You remember the Mancini - Doo Koo Kim fight when Kim died. Sad ending but what a fight. And the best three rounds of boxing I have ever seen was Hagler vs. Hearns. My fav of all time was sugar ray vs, Hearns.
Posted on 2/18/12 at 11:32 pm to dukke v
quote:
You remember the Mancini - Doo Koo Kim fight when Kim died. Sad ending but what a fight. And the best three rounds of boxing I have ever seen was Hagler vs. Hearns. My fav of all time was sugar ray vs, Hearns.
Yeah, all of them. The 80's had great fights across the board...in fact it was the HW division that felt mediocre until Tyson burst on the scene.
Just a thrilling decade to grow up with the sport...when the fights seemed to really matter nationwide.
Posted on 2/18/12 at 11:37 pm to TTownTiger
quote:
Klitschkos beat Tyson, even in his prime. The style that steward developed for Lennox Lewis at he end of his career that he brought to the Klitschkos is specifically designed for the taller, bigger fighters to keep the fight at a distance. It's the reason why smaller heavyweights under 230 lbs (like prime Tyson & Holyfield) or irrelevant in today's HW division. It's what killed the HW division and it did so because it WORKS! It would've worked against a smaller Tyson too.
Jack Dempsey destroyed a 245 lb Jess Willard despite weighing 187 1bs and 196 lb Joe Louis KO'd 260 lb Primo Carnera. The weight advantage has nothing to do the Klitschko brothers domination. Today's heavyweights just aren't good enough. The last ten years might be the weakest era in heavyweight boxing history.
Posted on 2/18/12 at 11:47 pm to Unbiased Bama Fan
Try this again:
You're correct, weight doesn't automatically mean a loss. I meant smaller HWs in general, both height & weight. My post wasnt about weight automatically meaning a loss, though. It was about a style Steward perfected about 15 years ago that puts smaller HWs at a severe disadvantage in today's HW division. It is the reason why boxing is considering adding a super heavyweight division in the near future - smaller HWs can't compete in today's division on a consistent basis. Actually, they can't compete at all today...
You're correct, weight doesn't automatically mean a loss. I meant smaller HWs in general, both height & weight. My post wasnt about weight automatically meaning a loss, though. It was about a style Steward perfected about 15 years ago that puts smaller HWs at a severe disadvantage in today's HW division. It is the reason why boxing is considering adding a super heavyweight division in the near future - smaller HWs can't compete in today's division on a consistent basis. Actually, they can't compete at all today...
This post was edited on 2/19/12 at 12:08 am
Posted on 2/19/12 at 12:02 am to TTownTiger
As usual, I agree with ttown here.
Posted on 2/19/12 at 12:10 am to TTownTiger
The Klitschko's aren't Russian they are Ukrainian.
Manny Steward only trains Wladimir
I think much like Tyson I think Vitali would take Ali in to deep water but instead of stopping him Vitali would just pull away on the scorecards especially if its a 15 round fight.
quote:
The style that steward developed for Lennox Lewis at he end of his career that he brought to the Klitschkos is specifically designed for the taller, bigger fighters to keep the fight at a distance. It's the reason why smaller heavyweights under 230 lbs (like prime Tyson & Holyfield) or irrelevant in today's HW division. It's what killed the HW division and it did so because it WORKS! It would've worked against a smaller Tyson too.
Manny Steward only trains Wladimir
quote:
As a GREAT MIND fighter ALI was. How does he do against these guys in HIS prime????
I think much like Tyson I think Vitali would take Ali in to deep water but instead of stopping him Vitali would just pull away on the scorecards especially if its a 15 round fight.
Posted on 2/19/12 at 12:11 am to TTownTiger
quote:
You're correct, weight doesn't automatically mean a loss. I meant smaller HWs in general, both height & weight. My post wasnt about that though. It was about a style Steward perfected about 15 years ago that puts smaller HWs at a severe disadvantage in today's HW divisions. It is the reason why boxing is considering adding a super heavyweight division in the near future - smaller HWs can't compete in today's division on a consistent basis. Actually, they can't compete at all today...
OK I can understand where you're coming from. You make a lot of good points. Now that you mentioned it, you're right about Lennox Lewis. He was a 240 lb fighter with an enormous reach who was able to handle much smaller fighters like Holyfield and Tyson with relative ease. Holyfield was a very skilled fighter but he was just too small to bother Lewis. The weight advantage certainly does seem unfair.
This post was edited on 2/19/12 at 12:13 am
Posted on 2/19/12 at 12:21 am to TTownTiger
quote:
It is the reason why boxing is considering adding a super heavyweight division in the near future - smaller HWs can't compete in today's division on a consistent basis
It is dumb that there are 17 different weight divisions in boxing, but only three above 168lbs. It doesn't make any sense. Should be a couple more divisions above 190 and a bunch less under 150.
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