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re: Best NBA rosters on paper with bad records?
Posted on 5/22/17 at 2:33 pm to brmark70816
Posted on 5/22/17 at 2:33 pm to brmark70816
quote:
I still don't get how the Wolves aren't any good. They have high lottery stars in Towns, Wiggins and Rubio. Then emerging youngsters in Lavine, Muhammad, Payne, Dunn, Dieng and Jones. Add in Pekovic, Rush and Casspi. With Thibodeau at HC, that team should have won 50 games..
rubio sucks and their 3 best players are all like 22. they will be really, really good IMO as towns develops into a top 5 player and wiggins will be a 25ppg player at minimum.
1
Posted on 5/22/17 at 2:33 pm to spaceranger
quote:
john wall a better two way player than steph. steph a better shooter but thats it. John a better defender, passer, rebounder. IT not on steph's level but its closer than people think
The comparisons are not that simple though. You have to properly weigh their skills for a fair comparison. You cannot deny that Steph's historic shooting skills have an effect on the entire team that no one else in the league has.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 2:33 pm to spaceranger
quote:
kawhi won finals mvp early.
Did not carry the team
quote:
d-wade
Went 42-40 his rookie year. Later on he had Shaq.
quote:
cp3
Went 38-44 his rookie year. You can argue he still hasn't carried a team anywhere significant.
quote:
lebron
35-47.
quote:
Kobe
Didn't carry the team. Had Shaq
quote:
Garnett
Didn't reach 30 wins. Didn't carry a team anywhere until Boston.
quote:
Durant
20 wins. Didn't really make it anywhere until year 4ish
Oh and I forgot to mention that Steph only appeared in 26 games in the year we are talking about...
This post was edited on 5/22/17 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 5/22/17 at 2:35 pm to Goldrush25
Minnesota started playing better down the stretch and Rubio was the main reason. He really turned it on after those trade rumors to the Knicks 
Posted on 5/22/17 at 2:38 pm to shel311
quote:
In fairness, he provides basically 1 thing, scoring. And he does that inefficiently.
his efg% really isn't that bad and it's been improving. he also scored 23+ ppg as a 21 year old. that's absurd. he definitely doesn't do anything else but score, but he's gonna be a league leader in that category very soon.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 2:39 pm to monkeybutt
Theres plenty of ways i can believe he didnt deserve it. I for sure dont think it should be unanimous. In a league that has lebron and kawhi being elite on both ends of the floor, someone who is elite at one thing doesnt deserve that love.
We probably have different opinions of what valuable means. If we take steph and put him on the brooklyn nets, how much better do they become? lebron? harden? KD? russ? kawhi? I'd argue hed give them the least boost. doesnt prove to be valuable when looking at it that way
If you switch John Wall and Steph Curry the last few years, warriors still win it. wizards probably get worse as they lose someone who does more for them
We probably have different opinions of what valuable means. If we take steph and put him on the brooklyn nets, how much better do they become? lebron? harden? KD? russ? kawhi? I'd argue hed give them the least boost. doesnt prove to be valuable when looking at it that way
If you switch John Wall and Steph Curry the last few years, warriors still win it. wizards probably get worse as they lose someone who does more for them
Posted on 5/22/17 at 2:41 pm to spaceranger
quote:You are vastly underrating what Curry's 30+ foot range does for a team. It is the main factor in what makes GS so good on offense.
We probably have different opinions of what valuable means. If we take steph and put him on the brooklyn nets, how much better do they become? lebron? harden? KD? russ? kawhi? I'd argue hed give them the least boost. doesnt prove to be valuable when looking at it that way
If you switch John Wall and Steph Curry the last few years, warriors still win it. wizards probably get worse as they lose someone who does more for them
He may not do wonders like a LeBron would, but Steph's mere presence on a team like Brooklyn would make their offense much better than it was this season. Would they be a good offense? Nah, but they would be much better than the actually were.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 2:43 pm to rockchlkjayhku11
Towns is getting pretty close. I was shocked when I saw his final numbers (25/12). He might already be the best big man in the league. Wiggins put up 23ppg, but probably not very efficiently. They just shouldn't be a 30 win team..
Posted on 5/22/17 at 2:48 pm to spaceranger
quote:
If you switch John Wall and Steph Curry the last few years, warriors still win it. wizards probably get worse as they lose someone who does more for them
I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous. Steph is not some huge drop off as a defender. And all your arguments basically revolve around you completely disregarding/not understanding what his incredible shooting actually allows a team to do. Can you imagine Beal getting the amount of crazy good looks that Klay gets? Steph's floor spacing is an elite thing that affects his team more than you apparently want to admit to yourself. Wall is not going to get those Warriors the same amount of wide open shots.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 2:51 pm to spaceranger
quote:
If you switch John Wall and Steph Curry the last few years, warriors still win it
Nah.
Actually watch a Warriors game and watch where they run all of their action. Pretty much everything is run through Curry off of the ball. In a way, he attracts defensive gravity at Shaq levels. The defense is so focused on his shooting ability and switching off ball screens correctly (which, btw, he's elite at setting screens at the guard position) that everything else opens up for their offense. It puts tremendous pressure on the defense at all times even without the ball in his hands. That's something that you can't really quantify well with numbers and that you can't dismiss as "ah the only thing he can do is shoot". You are basically trying to use per game numbers for your argument and completely ignoring the impact of the players and what makes their respective teams click as a whole.
This post was edited on 5/22/17 at 2:53 pm
Posted on 5/22/17 at 2:54 pm to Weagle25
"early" in a career to me means like 3-4 years in
kawhi was most valuable player on the biggest stage- means alot
d-wade still won finals mvp pretty early in his career
CP brought us in the playoffs to lose a couple times with a banged up roster
lebron- 2007 finals come on man
kobe was the one closing out games in LA. shaq couldnt lead a comeback due to not being able to make free throws and lack of a three point shot
Garnett reached a WCF in minnesota
Durant in the finals
kawhi was most valuable player on the biggest stage- means alot
d-wade still won finals mvp pretty early in his career
CP brought us in the playoffs to lose a couple times with a banged up roster
lebron- 2007 finals come on man
kobe was the one closing out games in LA. shaq couldnt lead a comeback due to not being able to make free throws and lack of a three point shot
Garnett reached a WCF in minnesota
Durant in the finals
Posted on 5/22/17 at 2:54 pm to rockchlkjayhku11
quote:
Because Wiggins is a below average player
quote:Now I'm looking on my phone, so some of the include some low minute players, but you'll get the point.
He's 265th in real plus minus.
He's 111th in PER.
He's 97th in win shares, despite playing the most minutes, which brings us to 269th in WS per 48.
He's 232nd in the NBA in assist percentage.
He's 364th in the NBA in rebounding percentage.
He's 318th in box plus minus.
He's 469th in VORP.
And he's 4 or 5th on his OWN TEAM, across most of these stats.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 2:56 pm to kadillak
That team still clicks without him. They win when he doesnt play lol.
elite at setting screens? wtf are you talking about reaching up your arse to find something hes good at
attracts defensive attention at shaq levels?
elite at setting screens? wtf are you talking about reaching up your arse to find something hes good at
attracts defensive attention at shaq levels?
Posted on 5/22/17 at 2:57 pm to monkeybutt
quote:
Steph is not some huge drop off as a defender.
This is a meme that should have died about 2-3 years ago. Curry is a very solid defender relative to the point guard position, but struggles when he gets switched off just like virtually every other point guard in the league.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 3:01 pm to rockchlkjayhku11
quote:Yeah. Only 310 players have a higher EFG.
his efg% really isn't that bad
quote:And that's it. He's 28th in points per 100 possessions, but 20th in FGA.
he also scored 23+ ppg as a 21 year old.
But then the terrible starts to kick in. 259th in assists per 100 possessions and 377th in rebounds per 100.
He makes Carmelo seem like a passer, by comparison.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 3:02 pm to shel311
quote:
Can you imagine Beal getting the amount of crazy good looks that Klay gets?
draymond averages more assists than curry
quote:
Would they be a good offense? Nah, but they would be much better than the actually were.
agreed. but still less of a team than if the others switched is what im saying
Posted on 5/22/17 at 3:02 pm to spaceranger
quote:
That team still clicks without him. They win when he doesnt play lol.
elite at setting screens? wtf are you talking about reaching up your arse to find something hes good at
attracts defensive attention at shaq levels?
Do you even watch the NBA? Seriously? Def not Warriors games.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 3:02 pm to buckeye_vol
talking about young players before they became stars reminded me of this clip
LINK
and then I got really depressed.
LINK
and then I got really depressed.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 3:04 pm to buckeye_vol
Wiggins' number of turnovers and assists is virtually identical which is a worrying sign. It shows that his court vision and decision making skills are lacking ala Rudy Gay and Carmelo.
Posted on 5/22/17 at 3:05 pm to spaceranger
Well then Curry meets your standard of carrying a team then...
And you didn't address the fact that the season you used to prove Curry can't carry a team is the season he played in less than 30 games...
And you didn't address the fact that the season you used to prove Curry can't carry a team is the season he played in less than 30 games...
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