re: 2023 NASCAR Season Thread - 2023-24 Offseason

It takes big balls going into the turns at Pocono. Best drivers are the ones who win at tracks like that.

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Flatten them out then it doesn’t work now you spent millions for a clone Michigan track. And lost viewers. And would need to do another fix for that.

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Ok, if the goal is to reduce or eliminate large packs of cars running together, why wouldn't it work? And since you impugned me on my age and after I gave you a reply that made you went radio silent, I'm sure you're not old enough to remember racing at Daytona and Talladega pre restrictor plates (before 1987). But I do.

The tracks were fast, but we didn't race in packs. To me, the way we race today is FAR more dangerous, for the drivers, than when they were running 215+ mph with space in-between the cars. I almost made a pictorial list the other day of horrific crashes at these tracks. While I don't really have time for that, I think the visuals are important enough to make my case so I've compiled a few.

From Geoff Bodine's Truck crash in 2000 (which I watched live on ESPN2), I thought he was dead when I saw it.



Newman's Crash in the 2020 Daytona 500


Austin Dillon getting in the fence at the start finish line at Daytona


Rusty at Tallegega in 1993 (Fun fact: the movie Cars modeled "the King's" wreck at the end on the movie on that crash) to


Earnhardt's 1996 dega crash where he broke his clavicle and raced the next 3 weeks or


Elliot's 1998 crash where get got in the fence at Dega or


Carl Edwards getting the fence thanks to Brad K at Dega,



Mark Martin and Ricky Craven's 1996 Crash at Talladega when Craven went flying into the fence,


and the list goes on and on and on and on. Frankly, I'm tired of it. There is a reason we we a MUCH higher rate of crashes like this at these tracks. It's because they are fundamentally flawed. They were conceived for and created for the cars with the aerodynamic and horsepower of the 1960's, NOT modern race cars. Restrictor plates/Tapered Spacers are a band-aid to solve a problem that cannot be solved by trying to fix the cars.

Furthermore, in an era where Nascar is going for one car that races everywhere, these two tracks are the ONLY place where we have a modification to the drive train of the vehicle to make them "Safe". Restricting the HP of the cars at two tracks on the circut to make them "Safe" defeats that purpose. My contention is, if you're having to modify the cars in that way, then you have an inherent problem with the tracks themselves. The racecars work everywhere else.

Now, I fully understand that there is a segment of the nascar viewership that watches these two races to the cars run lap after lap inches apart with nobody being able to separate from one another. It is compelling in it's own way. And no matter how much they deny it, they're morbidly waiting for "the big one" to happen. Personally, I don't find it overly entertaining. I've watched too many races at those two tracks where the drivers I'm pulling for are in contention and running up front all day, only to be eliminated when 1/2 the field wads it up in turn 1.

I could go on, but think I've made my points. So why wouldn't modifying the banking solve the specific problem (eliminating pack racing)) I've spoke of? The answer is, personally, you don't want it eliminated.

And as an aside, given the popularity of I-racing, what I'm speaking of could easily be modeled in such a platform to optimize the baking to maximize the racing experience before any dirt was ever moved at those tracks...

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Its like saying flatten out Bristol or cover Bristol with dirt. They took best track and ruined it.

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You're just full of bad takes. They didn't flatten Bristol, they added progressive banking. Now the middle lane is steeper than the bottom lane, and the top lane is steeper than the middle lane. It changed Bristol from a 1 lane race track where the only way to pass was to use the bumper to a 2.5 lane track. I've seen more than one race at Bristol before they modified it. My former in-laws lived about 30 mins from the track. Back then, about 1/3 of the field had to wreck out before there was truly enough room to race. Passing was difficult. I was a fun experience and exciting but from a pure racing experience the racing is better now with the multiple grooves. What people are complaining about at Bristol is the wrecks have been reduced and the driver can actually race each other.

Edit: And for the record, I fully expect this post to be DV'ed to oblivion. I don't care. I guess I'm just one of the few fans of the sport that doesn't care for pack racing. If you like it fine. But I'm sick of it.

Based on all those crashes above.... Bodine, Newman, and Dillon I thought were legitimately dead at first. Dillon got out quickly, but there was legitimate fear about Newman.

Rant much?

You actually made my points. Except you want to tear ip hostorical tracks and make another clone track loke all the other cookie cutters. I want to fix the car so they don’t run in packs.

Your reading comprehension must be off today. I stated someone will die again if they keep this same pack racing. But Nascar won’t fix it because of TV ratings.

Learn to read. And I I’ve been watching longer than you, don’t need to brag about it.

Fix the cars to eliminate most pack racing. Due to size of track there will always be some drafting but if one has to slow down in corners and has throttle response they can pass.

Might want to have your blood pressure checked after you realize you made my points.

Yeah, I was about to mention the curtains when reading SBD's post. I was watching with my parents at home, and when NASCAR pulled those out, it went from fearing the worst to basically resignation that the worst had happened.

I'm a Newman fan, and the emotional swing from "Oh my God, he's going to win Daytona again" to "Oh my God, he's dead" in a matter of moments was staggering.

“You should take your own advice. My ENTIRE point in all of this is modern racecars CAN'T be "fixed" to work at Daytona and Talladega. If they could, don't you think Nascar would have wound the combination by now, 36 years into it? “

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No. I said this on here days ago too. Read my posts instead of strawman arguments. They can fix it but choose not to due to money. That was like my original post. Nascar likes the packs and wrecks. TV does too.

And at some point someone will die again. And nascar will point to all these little things they did (lol) and say well we tried.

Cookie cutter tracks don’t get viewers and are boring so why would tracks spend millions to make another?

Bristol used to be a years long wait list to get tix. Then they messed up the surface and ruined it. Then they covered it in dirt and ruined an iconic track even more. If I want dirt I catch SRX. Fix the concrete to allow racing again!

And fix the SS cars!

Y'all like watching a couple of chick with weaves fighting in the street. They will never remove the plates from big tracks. Have to change the track to change the racing.
It is obvious that car changes do not break up the pack racing.

Everyone in here arguing about removing plates (which they don’t technically have plates anymore, anyway) or flattening Daytona/Talladega and I’m over here reminiscing about the pack racing of the Gen 4 era. Gen 4 = tGOAT.

Cale lost it while running a 200mph lap by himself.

Today's cars with the downforce and tire they have one can drive around Daytona at 200mph with one hand while picking your nose.