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Message
re: 2023 Formula 1 season Thread
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:17 pm to BuckyCheese
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:17 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
The clear submission by the Team was that the alleged representation of an agreement between the
FIA and the teams that touching the car in any way, including with a jack, would constitute “working”
on the car for the purposes of Article 54.4 (c) of the Sporting Regulations, was incorrect and therefore
the basis of the Steward’s decision was wrong
That's interesting. It reads like the teams all agreed that the jack touching the car is a penalty, but the race stewards don't agree with what the teams agree.
quote:
We therefore proceeded to hear the substance of the request for review.
This also reads that no decision has been made. Another review is needed.
This post was edited on 3/19/23 at 5:19 pm
1
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:18 pm to busbeepbeep
Here you go.. official
LINK
Never mind, I’m slow… damn airplane WiFi
LINK
Never mind, I’m slow… damn airplane WiFi
This post was edited on 3/19/23 at 5:20 pm
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:23 pm to fightin tigers
I posted the text from the decision on the previous page...
ETA...
https://twitter.com/ChrisMedlandF1/status/1637580198844440577
quote:
In support of the Petition for Review, the Stewards were shown minutes of the latest SAC meeting
and video evidence of 7 different instances where cars were touched by the jack while serving a
similar penalty to the one imposed on Car 14 without being penalized.
The clear submission by the Team was that the alleged representation of an agreement between the
FIA and the teams that touching the car in any way, including with a jack, would constitute “working”
on the car for the purposes of Article 54.4 (c) of the Sporting Regulations, was incorrect and therefore
the basis of the Steward’s decision was wrong.
quote:
In the circumstances, we considered that our original decision to impose a penalty on Car 14 needed
to be reversed and we did so accordingly.
ETA...
https://twitter.com/ChrisMedlandF1/status/1637580198844440577
quote:
Chris Medland
@ChrisMedlandF1
The FIA will address the conflicting precedents regarding the definition of “working on the car” at a Sporting Advisory Committee (SAC) meeting this week to make sure a clarification is issued by the next race in Melbourne #F1
This post was edited on 3/19/23 at 5:26 pm
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:26 pm to bikerack
quote:
The FIA will address the conflicting precedents regarding the definition of “working on the car” at a Sporting Advisory Committee (SAC) meeting this week to make sure a clarification is issued by the next race in Melbourne #F1
Sounds like these stewards feel it was addressed, but last week the stewards missed it. As well as last years stewards missed it.
Agree, think it is a shite penalty, hopefully FIA clears it up.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:37 pm to fightin tigers
Rule is what it is, don’t touch the car… the problem with Alonso’s penalty is he had 60% of the race to push and get a larger gap had he known. They should have to inform within 5 laps
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:38 pm to fightin tigers
4D chess move, gave a trophy to Mercedes just so they could rip it away and further demoralize them.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:47 pm to Lsut81
quote:
Rule is what it is, don’t touch the car…
That is not spelled out in the rulebook.
The pertinent rules have been posted on another forum and nowhere is "touching" the car mentioned. Only work.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:48 pm to Lsut81
quote:
They should have to inform within 5 laps
Most definitely. It's not like this is a fuel test failure or other technical rule broken that can only be found out after the race is over. It's a racing infraction, and as such it should be pretty fricking easy to review and communicate within five laps.
It's the same thing with Lance and the safety car. Race director said it was because they didn't have the proper cameras to determine if he was off the track or not. It's like, y'all have radios, guys. Marshals can radio back to race direction and say "He's behind the barrier." Go sector yellow and then deploy a safety car or VSC in 9 seconds when the helicopter camera pans that way.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:51 pm to bikerack
quote:
In support of the Petition for Review, the Stewards were shown minutes of the latest SAC meeting and video evidence of 7 different instances where cars were touched by the jack while serving a similar penalty to the one imposed on Car 14 without being penalized.
If this is true, then following the precedent (of no penalty) is the correct decision until they can all come together to agree yet again that touching the car at all constitutes "working" on it.
It sounds like an enforcement issue of a clear rule (neither officials nor teams were paying close attention to this previously), and this is a fair result for this incident because of the lax enforcement.Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:53 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
That is not spelled out in the rulebook.
The pertinent rules have been posted on another forum and nowhere is "touching" the car mentioned. Only work.
Interesting! Then the rules were unfortunately vague, creating this mess.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:54 pm to TouchedTheAxeIn82
That is what I don't get. The stewards admit that this issue has been reviewed and agreed upon that touching is working.
The stewards don't agree so they are refusing to act.
Like, WTF?
Also, to be clear, had the decision of 10s penalty during the race been decided, Aston couldn't have appealed.
The stewards don't agree so they are refusing to act.
Like, WTF?
Also, to be clear, had the decision of 10s penalty during the race been decided, Aston couldn't have appealed.
This post was edited on 3/19/23 at 5:58 pm
Posted on 3/19/23 at 5:59 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
That is what I don't get. The stewards admit that this issue has been reviewed and agreed upon that touching is working.
In the reversal they state they reviewed the minutes of the SAC meeting, so apparently it was NOT agreed that touching is working by that group.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 6:04 pm to BuckyCheese
Are there any post-race stats on track limit occurences? It seems every time they showed Turn 23, someone was off. Did they not include Turn 23 to track limits today?
Posted on 3/19/23 at 6:17 pm to Projectpat
quote:
4D chess move, gave a trophy to Mercedes just so they could rip it away and further demoralize them.
Love it!
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:14 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
The stewards admit that this issue has been reviewed and agreed upon that touching is working.
quote:if they haven't enforced this "rule" before then they shouldn't now.
video evidence of 7 different instances where cars were touched by the jack while serving a similar penalty to the one imposed on Car 14 without being penalized.
quote:ALO earned his podium. Taking it away for that kinda bullshite is just dumb. Even the 5 sec penalty on the start is dumb. Back in the 80s half the field would be rolling before the start. It's not like ALO jumped it he was just barely to the left of the side line of the box. He was always going to beat checo off the line. He's done that since he started in F1
The stewards don't agree so they are refusing to act.
Like, WTF?
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:21 pm to UncleFestersLegs
quote:
if they haven't enforced this "rule" before then they shouldn't now.
They enforced it last week. Think Zhou got enforced last year.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:29 pm to fightin tigers
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:34 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
They enforced it last week.
Last week they actually started working on the wing on Ocon's car before the 5 seconds was up.
AM showed 7 examples of the jack touching the car while serving a penalty with no further penalty being levied.
Nothing in rules says you cannot "touch" the car. You can't work on it while serving the time penalty. Touching and actually doing something is obviously different.
They may revise the rule to prevent any further confusion, but AM did not violate the rule as written and they showed the SAC had not revised it's understanding of what working on the car means as far as touching it.
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:34 pm to BuckyCheese
All of that crying Mercedes has done and they’re sitting second in the standings. 
Posted on 3/19/23 at 7:34 pm to BuckyCheese
Looks like that's the pts with RUS taking 3rd
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