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re: 2021 Pro Cycling Thread-Julian Alaphilippe is Your World Champ Again!
Posted on 7/14/21 at 5:20 pm to flvelo12
Posted on 7/14/21 at 5:20 pm to flvelo12
quote:
Yea he's an arse, but it was a blast. & everyone else was doping too
This is key.
Lance isn't there, the Tour winners in his stead would almost certainly have been bounced as well.
It's like the people that shite all over Clemons, Palmiero, McGwire, Sosa and Bonds for the Steroid Era. Almost everyone was juicing, but you still needed talent to do what they did.
Are their accomplishments "tainted"? In the purest sense, yes. But, their accomplishments should not be ignored considering the context of the eras in which they competed.
2
Posted on 7/14/21 at 5:24 pm to udtiger
quote:
udtiger
Posted on 7/14/21 at 5:42 pm to udtiger
Here are the Tour de France Winners if Lance was DQ:
1999-Alex Zulle-embroiled in the Festina scandal and admitted EPO use.
2000, 2001, 2003-Jan Ullrich-Too many to count.
2002-Joseba Beloki-Only 2nd place not to be found guilty of doping yet, possible ties to Fuentes however.
2004-Andreas Kloden-Rode for Astana, doping allegations for the 2006 TDF.
2005-Ivan Basso-Banned for doping in 2007, ties to Fuentes.
Everybody at the top doped, I really don't know how far down the GC you would have to go to find the true winner, but Armstrong did what everybody else was doing, and was the best at it.
1999-Alex Zulle-embroiled in the Festina scandal and admitted EPO use.
2000, 2001, 2003-Jan Ullrich-Too many to count.
2002-Joseba Beloki-Only 2nd place not to be found guilty of doping yet, possible ties to Fuentes however.
2004-Andreas Kloden-Rode for Astana, doping allegations for the 2006 TDF.
2005-Ivan Basso-Banned for doping in 2007, ties to Fuentes.
Everybody at the top doped, I really don't know how far down the GC you would have to go to find the true winner, but Armstrong did what everybody else was doing, and was the best at it.
Posted on 7/14/21 at 5:48 pm to TigerAlumni2010
quote:
best at it.
I tend to think Contador was better than Lance especially since he doubled and won all 3 major tours multiple times.
But Mercyxx Hineault LaMonde Indurain Froome and Lance have to be considered the top TdF riders ever
This post was edited on 7/14/21 at 5:49 pm
Posted on 7/14/21 at 5:48 pm to TigerAlumni2010
quote:
I really don't know how far down the GC you would have to go to find the true winner
Moncoutie finishing 13th in 2002 is the obvious sure thing. Then there's Sastre. Who really knows about him. Supposedly his brother in law Chava's death galvanized his decision to never dope but it's impossible to know.
And it's impossible to know who would have won if nobody doped. Some people respond better to different PEDs and methods and some had better docs. Lance paid Ferrari enough to get a no-compete clause guaranteeing he wouldn't work with other GC contenders.
Posted on 7/14/21 at 6:17 pm to Diseasefreeforall
Other than watching the Tour, what I look forward to most each year is LA and Hincapies stage recaps on YouTube. Still a huge LA fan and even go back and watch those old stages with my jaw on the floor. Lifelong fan and IDGAF.
Posted on 7/14/21 at 6:28 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
No, just 20 for the Tourmalet and 20 in Luz Ardiden so still a lot of points on offer tomorrow. The first over the Tourmalet also gets the Souvenir Jacques Goddet with a 5,000 euro prize
Why isn't the finish line 40? It's a MTF?
I've money on both Pog and Poels to win the polka dot so I'm good either way
Posted on 7/14/21 at 6:52 pm to engvol
quote:
Why isn't the finish line 40? It's a MTF?
It is a MTF, I assume not 40 since there are 2 HC climbs both worth 20.
Posted on 7/14/21 at 7:02 pm to Obtuse1
The Portet is a beautifully cruel climb. It’s a big boy climb and today that was a real fist fight. Real classy rides by a good hand full of riders, but the three at the end deserve a round of applause. Nice racing!
Posted on 7/14/21 at 8:00 pm to pennypacker3
I think Lance not hated so much for the doping. We all know that era it was only way to compete. His mistake was the lawsuits & bullying against everybody that dared to question him.
Posted on 7/14/21 at 9:21 pm to CXSteve
I think it is interesting (I don't mean in a pejorative way) that the thread has been chugging along for over 2 weeks now occasionally having to be rescued from second page obscurity but I mention the name that shall not be named and we get a big flurry of activity.
Interesting moment today on The Move podcast when HE made a joke about the wiping of HIS records:
Youtube
The link should start at ~12:50, listen for about a minute.
We were eatin' out of the same cereal box
Big George got friends not only in the peloton but everywhere.
Interesting moment today on The Move podcast when HE made a joke about the wiping of HIS records:
Youtube
The link should start at ~12:50, listen for about a minute.
We were eatin' out of the same cereal box
Big George got friends not only in the peloton but everywhere.
This post was edited on 7/14/21 at 9:22 pm
Posted on 7/14/21 at 9:48 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
We were eatin' out of the same cereal box
Posted on 7/15/21 at 12:32 am to Obtuse1
My stance is if his ego didn’t get in the way with Contador after his retirement and didn’t come back he never lost his titles.
I’ve read articles agreeing with this, but also think after a while it would eventually come out..
I’ve read articles agreeing with this, but also think after a while it would eventually come out..
Posted on 7/15/21 at 1:59 am to YungBuck
quote:
My stance is if his ego didn’t get in the way with Contador after his retirement and didn’t come back he never lost his titles.
I said he was poking the (anti-doping) bear with a stick from the moment it was announced he was going to Astana. I do wish he had been on a different string team in 2009 though, while I think Contador would have still beat him I think he would have been closer and beat out Andy S for second.
This may be a hot take but I also think had he not had so many American teammates he would still have had the suspicion but wouldn't have been stripped and not just because it was mainly USADA that brought him down but I think a lot of the cyclists from the other countries had a better understanding and acceptance of the doping in cycling culture.
Posted on 7/15/21 at 4:31 am to Obtuse1
Bahrain was raided by the French National police this AM at their hotel. Can think of some other teams that need a knock on the door…
Posted on 7/15/21 at 6:56 am to usc6158
quote:
Bahrain was raided by the French National police this AM at their hotel. Can think of some other teams that need a knock on the door…
Somebody called the cops on them...Vaughters?
And in honor of Lance and Luz Ardiden. 2003 was a brutal Tour with extreme heat, Lance lost a time trial when he got badly dehydrated and almost lost the Tour climbing Luz Ardiden when his bars caught a spectator's bag:
Posted on 7/15/21 at 6:56 am to usc6158
delete dp
This post was edited on 7/15/21 at 6:57 am
Posted on 7/15/21 at 7:56 am to Diseasefreeforall
Hey guys guess what?
That’s right!!
Cofidis has a rider in the break!!
It’s unheard of
That’s right!!
Cofidis has a rider in the break!!
It’s unheard of
Posted on 7/15/21 at 8:03 am to sms151t
quote:
Hey guys guess what?
That’s right!!
Cofidis has a rider in the break!!
It’s unheard of
Posted on 7/15/21 at 8:03 am to sms151t
just saw that and came to post Glad you're here this morning
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