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re: Why is crypto crashing?

Posted on 5/18/22 at 12:58 pm to
Posted by TrussvilleTide
The Endless Void
Member since Sep 2021
4069 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 12:58 pm to
quote:

I sat through a presentation on cryptocurrency @4 years ago


quote:

better currency than the USD in a few years


How did that work out?
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4112 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 1:09 pm to
quote:

Probably to avoid paying taxes as he will have to do when converting to USD. Technically he would have to pay taxes either way but sending a payment to you with bitcoin isn’t going through any KYC type company so he could easily get away with not paying taxes


OK. Thanks to both of you for the replies. I hadn’t thought about the tax implications… for either side.

So if I took the bitcoin and then converted it, in addition to the conversion risk, I’d have also created a tax event for myself. So that creates another wrinkle that I wouldn’t care to deal with… unless I decided to get into crypto myself.

The other fellow later mentioned how the USD could encounter similar volatility if certain things happened, say with OPEC. While true in theory, I make my living dealing with probabilities in the options market. And the probability of that is quite low, IMO.

Again, I’ve thought for years that blockchain technology was fascinating. But because there are other areas where I have experience and knowledge, I’m not yet ready to take on an investment in crypto when I’m just trying to complete a transaction. Maybe in time.
Posted by BottomlandBrew
Member since Aug 2010
27106 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 1:19 pm to
quote:

The fact that so many are now pivoting away from it being called or used as currency is proof that this is nothing but a tulip craze.


Some people are pivoting away from that because it is evolving into something else. The technology is advancing to fill niches in other sectors.

We're posting on a sports board, so let's use a sporting event as an example: It's the 2025 football season. Tiger Stadium has gone to an all-digital ticket. I'm wondering around Tiger Stadium and looking for a ticket. I see a dude holding up two fingers and approach him about buying them. He looks pretty sketchy, but I really want to see the game.

He shows me the digital tickets on his phone. I agree to his price. We both open the ticketing app. I input the amount he wants and hit send. It then adds a service fee and puts the ticket in a digital escrow account. The seller then sends his tickets to the escrow account. The back-end software (smart contract) confirms on the blockchain that the tickets are real and belong to the seller and also that I have the correct amount of money. The contract then deposits the money in the sellers account and the ticket in my account and records the transaction on the blockchain.

That's a very real "cryptocurrency" scenario you will see in the future.

Now, why can't ticketmaster just run their own private ledger on their own server? They could, but it would be susceptible to being hacked/compromised/gamed. A decentralized blockchain solves this by confirming it on copies of the ledger spread out across the validators. If the majority of the validators agree the ticket is real, then it's real.

Posted by SalE
At the beach
Member since Jan 2020
2420 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 1:25 pm to
Don't forget..crypto is traded on margin as well..selling assets eveywhere..
Posted by DeathValley85
Member since May 2011
17184 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 1:30 pm to
quote:

That's a very real "cryptocurrency" scenario you will see in the future.


Great example.

Very few projects are attempting to create a cryptocurrency similar to Bitcoin. I would urge those interested to keep digging into blockchain and learning. There will be big winners imo, not unlike the internet.

All those counterpoints about bitcoin functioning as a currency are fine, but those points apply to only a fraction of crypto.
Posted by SlidellCajun
Slidell la
Member since May 2019
10436 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 3:11 pm to
quote:

If the majority of the validators agree the ticket is real, then it's real.


Let’s do a step further- the seller of this tickets wants to realize the amount that he receives- does he realize it in bitcoin or USD?
Posted by tenderfoot tigah
Red Stick
Member since Sep 2004
10405 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 3:31 pm to
quote:

Let’s do a step further- the seller of this tickets wants to realize the amount that he receives- does he realize it in bitcoin or USD?


Why are you so focused on what currency is used at the grocery store? You aren't using your Fidelity account at the super market. It's a brutally bad debate point. I can turn USD to any crypto or world fiat currency I want within seconds. People trade currencies just like they do stocks, commodities, or crypto. For the love of God, do some research.



Posted by SlidellCajun
Slidell la
Member since May 2019
10436 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 3:42 pm to
quote:

How did that work out?




Crypto being a better currency than USD in a few years?
Not too good.
Posted by SlidellCajun
Slidell la
Member since May 2019
10436 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 3:46 pm to
quote:

People trade currencies just like they do stocks, commodities, or crypto. For the love of God, do some research.


Of course they do! Never said they didn’t.

The difference is that the currencies are being traded have some intrinsic value. They are actual currencies and get used to buy stuff.

The secure ones hold their value or even increase in value because they don’t run a high risk to the ones using it to buy stuff.
Crypto currencies appear to have no intrinsic value. They’re traded for no other reason than people like trading them. And then when asked how they actually realize the value, it’s always in USD! Why?

Again: would you take a cryptocurrency in exchange for the sale of your house?
This post was edited on 5/18/22 at 3:51 pm
Posted by AMS
Member since Apr 2016
6497 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 3:50 pm to
quote:

The difference is that the currencies are being traded have some intrinsic value


I dont think you know what fiat is... USD by definition has no intrinsic value as it is a fiat.
Posted by TigerTatorTots
The Safeshore
Member since Jul 2009
80782 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

So if I took the bitcoin and then converted it, in addition to the conversion risk, I’d have also created a tax event for myself.
Not necessarily - if you converted immediately your cost basis and sold basis would be the same. Your cost basis would be when you acquired the bitcoin. The tax implication would be the difference in value from when you acquired the bitcoin to when you sold/converted the bitcoin.
Posted by tenderfoot tigah
Red Stick
Member since Sep 2004
10405 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 4:02 pm to
quote:

intrinsic value


You mean like requiring ETH or BNB or SOL to use tens of thousands of dapps? Or is having a military the only intrinsic value that counts?

You are so uneducated about crypto that most people are choosing to ignore you.

Let's perform a simple exercise that I believe you can grasp. Go to the app store on your phone. Look at all of the apps. Replace the word "app store" with Ethereum, Binance Smart Chain, Solana, etc. That app store you are looking at runs on those blockchains. It's just different apps. You NEED the blockchain token to use the apps.

Let's go over a more simple example just in case my app store example was too complicated. Your black jack game or slots game or whatever game you play on your phone has an in game currency. Since the advent of smart contracts, game developers started utilizing web 3 technology (blockchains) to host the in game currencies and also enabling the trading of those currencies just like you can trade wheat or oil.

If more explanation is needed, I can further simplify.
Posted by BottomlandBrew
Member since Aug 2010
27106 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 4:12 pm to
quote:

Let’s do a step further- the seller of this tickets wants to realize the amount that he receives- does he realize it in bitcoin or USD?


From a mass adoption point, I'd imagine consumer-facing front-end would be in USD or some form of USD CBDC, but the back-end would transact using some blockchain token, like matic, solana, loopring, or some other low-cost/high-speed blockchain system.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4112 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 5:17 pm to
quote:

Not necessarily - if you converted immediately your cost basis and sold basis would be the same. Your cost basis would be when you acquired the bitcoin. The tax implication would be the difference in value from when you acquired the bitcoin to when you sold/converted the bitcoin.


Yes, this is true. But in this fast moving market, what are the odds that I would be able to sell it for exactly what my cost basis is? Either way, I believe that I’d be required to report a crypto transaction on my tax statement. Other than playing off my mandated discount, there’s nothing really to be gained (unless it staged a significant rally while I was in the process of converting to $), so not worth the hassle to me.

It’s quite likely that at some point I might dabble in one of the major cryptos. But I’ll have a plan and goals going in. With a significant dollar transaction, I wouldn’t play.
Posted by SlidellCajun
Slidell la
Member since May 2019
10436 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 7:28 pm to
quote:

I dont think you know what fiat is... USD by definition has no intrinsic value as it is a fiat.


I said as much.
The fact is tho that the USD is about the most secure currency on the planet.

Would you accept any of the cryptocurrencies in exchange for the sale of your home?
Posted by AMS
Member since Apr 2016
6497 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 7:33 pm to
quote:

The difference is that the currencies are being traded have some intrinsic value


quote:


I said as much.


you said the opposite.
Posted by SlidellCajun
Slidell la
Member since May 2019
10436 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 7:40 pm to
quote:

you said the opposite.


Go check my posts from around 12:28 pm today.

I have had and still do have concerns about The USD
Posted by AMS
Member since Apr 2016
6497 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 7:41 pm to
quote:


Go check my posts from around 12:28 pm today.


dont need to. I literally just quoted you saying the exact opposite.
Posted by SlidellCajun
Slidell la
Member since May 2019
10436 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 7:59 pm to
quote:

dont need to. I literally just quoted you saying the exact opposite.


That’s okay

I’m clear on how I feel about the USD.
I can explain it to you but I can’t understand it for you.
Posted by BottomlandBrew
Member since Aug 2010
27106 posts
Posted on 5/18/22 at 10:58 pm to
quote:

I can explain it to you but I can’t understand it for you.


Just like I can explain that the term "cryptocurrency" is an outdated misnomer and you don't understand that?
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