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re: S&P down 10% in 3 weeks
Posted on 3/10/25 at 10:20 pm to Hateradedrink
Posted on 3/10/25 at 10:20 pm to Hateradedrink
quote:
Trump added more to the deficit than anyone except maybe Biden.
What did other presidents know that he didn’t?
Reading comprehension isnt your strong suit is it?
1
Posted on 3/10/25 at 10:32 pm to slackster
quote:
No one is saying that the US should continue doing what we’ve been doing, but we could run a deficit every year for the next century and be fine financially. The much larger concern is the pace of debt growth, not the fact that it exists.
Weve only known "times of plenty" because recent history has been easy, cheap money supplied by the government printing machine. Boomers, Gen Xers and to a degree older millennials have been riding the gravy train for decades. Of course it seems like there is no price to pay for fiscal irresponsibility, because weve never seen it. On the rare occasions where the shite was about to hit the fan, the government just printed more money to bail out the reckless investing.
The problem is that young people cant find jobs...because there arent many. They cant afford houses. They cant afford to get married and have kids...and they arent. Not a problem for Boomers and Xers...yall got yours and have one foot in the grave. The next generation will have to bear the years of famine
Posted on 3/11/25 at 6:31 am to scottydoesntknow
Although i agree with some of your points most Gen X folks were not given a free ride like the generations after.Living with parents past 20,parents helping with expenses etc... Most of us raised ourselves because either our parents were both working or divorced. My brothers and i grew up with a mom in a trailer . We all joined the military because we couldn't afford college. After Military roomed with 4 guys in a 2 bedroom 1 bath Apartment working a job while attending college. Didnt graduate college until early 30's but have pretty much had to earn everything i got today with no one giving me anything. Thanks to my Military service i was able to get a house. While i understand your frustration saying yall got yours kind of gets under my skin. 
Posted on 3/11/25 at 7:31 am to Pendulum
quote:
I definitely don't want to live in a USA with 0 debt.
I don't think anyone's saying that, but rather that debt must be manageable. We have gone well beyond that level as evidenced by...
quote:
Debt growth vs production growth is all that matters.
The general consensus is that optimal debt to GDP is ~60% or lower (because it indicates a country is producing more than it owes). We haven't seen that the GFC. Hell, we haven't been below 100% since a brief drop around Q3 2015. Other than that, you have to go back to 2012.
COVID and post-COVID spending spiked that percentage to be consistently over 115% since 2020 with the current level being just under 122% (Q4 2024) and trending upward.
That sort of continual deficit spending is not sustainable. You either drag the economy down by keeping rates high in order to fight inflation or you run higher inflation in order to keep the economy treading water. Both are losing propositions over the long term.
This post was edited on 3/11/25 at 7:40 am
Posted on 3/11/25 at 7:34 am to FLObserver
quote:
While i understand your frustration saying yall got yours kind of gets under my skin.
I mean im speaking in generalities. Most Xers and Boomers worked hard for what they got...but they also did so in a much different America.
Lets be real here...the stock market everyone on this board justifiably loves was an unsustainable gravy train for decades that benefitted those that were old enough to have accrued enough money to invest. Everyone's mad at Trump because in his second term, hes decided to forgo the status quo of pumping up the stock market at the expense of the sustainability of the future.
Balanced budgets, thousands of fedgov layoffs, and general fiscal responsibility dont lead to perpetual market gainzzz
Posted on 3/11/25 at 7:38 am to Pendulum
quote:
Debt growth vs production growth is all that matters.
Ehh
If the debt keeps going up and we can’t service the interest payments which is where we’re at now the bond buyers will stop buying us bonds and inflation will get much worse
Y’all have been trained to think that we can print our way out because it makes your portfolio go up (less than the rate of inflation) but it doesn’t work like that forever
Posted on 3/11/25 at 7:48 am to scottydoesntknow
quote:
Balanced budgets
Seeing is believing on that one. I have my doubts.
quote:
general fiscal responsibility
Six bankruptcies says he might not know what fiscal responsibility is.
We'll see.
This post was edited on 3/11/25 at 7:51 am
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:00 am to VABuckeye
quote:
quote:
Balanced budgets
Seeing is believing on that one. I have my doubts.
Everyone should. Congress is still all in for the status quo
quote:
quote:
general fiscal responsibility
Six bankruptcies says he might not know what fiscal responsibility is.
We'll see.
Cool, he must be broke and destitute right?
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:02 am to scottydoesntknow
quote:
Cool, he must be broke and destitute right?
No, but he certainly made many others broke. His history of business practices isn't a rosy image.
Like I said, we'll see. I'm rooting for eventual prosperity.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:13 am to VABuckeye
quote:
No, but he certainly made many others broke. His history of business practices isn't a rosy image.
Maybe. He was a businessman working within the rules that he didnt establish. Its funny that folks get all upset over DJT's business practices...yet were perfectly fine with the multiple government bailouts that spared the amassed wealth and retirements of boomers and Xers after their recklessness.
Why dont yall just be real? You want the deficits and out of control spending as long as your portfolio increases...the ladder gets pulled up behind yall but its not your problem so no big deal
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:28 am to scottydoesntknow
quote:
Why dont yall just be real? You want the deficits and out of control spending as long as your portfolio increases...the ladder gets pulled up behind yall but its not your problem so no big deal
Exactly. Just come out and say “frick them kids.” At least we’d respect your honesty.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 8:53 am to scottydoesntknow
quote:
Everyone's mad at Trump because in his second term, hes decided to forgo the status quo of pumping up the stock market at the expense of the sustainability of the future.
Yep, forgoing the status quo was always the plan. People just don’t get it.
quote:
"As soon as it becomes clear on election night that we've defeated crooked Joe Biden, you will see your 401(k) soar and you already see it," Trump told a New Hampshire crowd the day after winning the Iowa caucus. He claimed prices rise "every time we have a good poll or every time we have a night like we did last night."
quote:
"We are a nation whose stock market's continued success is contingent upon MAGA winning the next election," he told a crowd in New Hampshire in January as the music swelled.
quote:
"If we don't win the next election, the stock market will crash just like it did in 1929," he said.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 9:07 am to VABuckeye
I will say this:
The tariffs are obviously counterproductive, but it’s 1000% fact that if an actual politician concerned about deficits such as Thomas massie or chip Roy were elected president (with a majority congress to work with) and chose as their main agenda a large reduction in deficits, it would cause market volatility and a very Mediocre market environment for a few years.
My point is that the stock market should not guide your policies. There are certainly examples of times where what is best for the economy is bad for the market. For example, raising interest rates in 2022 to deal with inflation. Or cutting spending to address our insanely high deficits.
Tariffs are bad not because they are bad for markets, but because they are on net bad for society.
Deficit reduction is bad for markets, but good and vital in the long run.
Yet I feel like a very vocal portion of this board has become convinced that Econ policy must be in harmony with green markets at all times.
That’s a bad thing.
The tariffs are obviously counterproductive, but it’s 1000% fact that if an actual politician concerned about deficits such as Thomas massie or chip Roy were elected president (with a majority congress to work with) and chose as their main agenda a large reduction in deficits, it would cause market volatility and a very Mediocre market environment for a few years.
My point is that the stock market should not guide your policies. There are certainly examples of times where what is best for the economy is bad for the market. For example, raising interest rates in 2022 to deal with inflation. Or cutting spending to address our insanely high deficits.
Tariffs are bad not because they are bad for markets, but because they are on net bad for society.
Deficit reduction is bad for markets, but good and vital in the long run.
Yet I feel like a very vocal portion of this board has become convinced that Econ policy must be in harmony with green markets at all times.
That’s a bad thing.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 9:12 am to Pendulum
quote:
I definitely don't want to live in a USA with 0 debt. Standard of living lower than it has to be for what reason? Our society as we know it is possible because of debt as an instrument
Debt growth vs production growth is all that matters.
The problem with your reasoning is that probably greater than 95% of all the debt the govt goes into is to pay for things that don’t provide a greater payout in the future.
For example, deficit spending to pay for an elderly American to have Medicare and ss isnt going to bring about future economic growth that can pay for the debt you took out.
On the other hand, going into debt to fund new roads or infrastructure is probably going to cause greater economic growth in the future, and so deficit spending makes sense
Posted on 3/11/25 at 9:13 am to jordan21210
So stock market success is defined solely by what happens in the first 5 weeks? What if this correction recovers by summer and then goes on to have a strong few years? That not count?
Did Joe Biden have a successful stock market even though it tanked 25% in 2022?
You people.
Did Joe Biden have a successful stock market even though it tanked 25% in 2022?
You people.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 9:16 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
I don't agree with the trariffs as a long term strategy or principle. I do agree with what Trump is trying to get as a result of them though (businesses moving back to the US or at worst, reduction in other country's tariffs). He did it with China his first term, amongst much teeth gnashing. It is a trade tactic to try and balance the scales back out after many years of administrations allowing us to be raked over the coals.
It is a gamble for sure though. If he is able to bring manufacturing back here, businesses moving back, creating jobs, should lower fuel prices, etc, it will be a great move. We still hold most of the power here, so I think after a short period of chest pumping, most of these countries will meet our terms. They can't afford not to.
It still shocks me that people don't understand Trump isn't some staunch fiscal conservative. He never has been. He is going to work with what cards are dealt to try and get the most advantageous deal he can for the US, no more no less. It may cause some short term pain for sure, reversing decades of bad policies usually does.
It is a gamble for sure though. If he is able to bring manufacturing back here, businesses moving back, creating jobs, should lower fuel prices, etc, it will be a great move. We still hold most of the power here, so I think after a short period of chest pumping, most of these countries will meet our terms. They can't afford not to.
It still shocks me that people don't understand Trump isn't some staunch fiscal conservative. He never has been. He is going to work with what cards are dealt to try and get the most advantageous deal he can for the US, no more no less. It may cause some short term pain for sure, reversing decades of bad policies usually does.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 9:23 am to DrrTiger
quote:
So stock market success is defined solely by what happens in the first 5 weeks? What if this correction recovers by summer and then goes on to have a strong few years? That not count? Did Joe Biden have a successful stock market even though it tanked 25% in 2022? You people.
Just pointing out the constant flip flopping by MAGA. Stock market good? “All hail Trump, the stock market guru!” Stock market bad? “This was a part of the plan! We have to suffer if we want to be successful!” Except, Trump never campaigned on this “plan”. I also don’t recall Biden attributing future stock market success during his 2020 campaign solely to himself nor did the market crash in his first 2 months. Note: this is not a Biden endorsement at all - trying to paint a picture that you won’t see either way.
Posted on 3/11/25 at 10:04 am to scottydoesntknow
Friend, it is your ability to read that is deficient.
You said he trusted the wrong people, the swamp.
If this is true, why did other presidents not increase the deficit as much?
Did they trust the right swamp creatures instead of the wrong ones? What did they do correct that Trump did not?
You said he trusted the wrong people, the swamp.
If this is true, why did other presidents not increase the deficit as much?
Did they trust the right swamp creatures instead of the wrong ones? What did they do correct that Trump did not?
Posted on 3/11/25 at 10:05 am to Hateradedrink
time to buy SDS and put stop-losses until this shite stops
Posted on 3/11/25 at 10:05 am to jordan21210
Tariffs ON: bringing manufacturing back!
Tariffs Off: Art of the Deal
Tariffs ON: bringing manufacturing back!
Tariffs Off: Art of the Deal
Tariffs ON: bringing manufacturing back!
Tariffs Off: Art of the Deal
Tariffs Off: Art of the Deal
Tariffs ON: bringing manufacturing back!
Tariffs Off: Art of the Deal
Tariffs ON: bringing manufacturing back!
Tariffs Off: Art of the Deal
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