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Message
Resignation is Official - New Agreement is Executed, but wait... - Update in OP and Page 5
Posted on 1/31/18 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 1/31/18 at 1:41 pm
June 2017 I got a 25% raise. Told me how great I was, never a better employee, etc etc. Put my salary at about 52k. I work for a small company, absolutely no benefits outside of my salary.
This month, I was scheduled for a very small raise (5%). My boss absolutely blindsides me, tells me he thinks my performance is lacking, I'm not giving 110% and that "on some days I think you only work an hour a day".
I'm pretty friendly with this boss and was very surprised by this PR. It came out of no where and he had never mentioned poor performance at any point prior to this. I think it had to do with no-one was getting a raise and if he told me my performance was good, he'd have to listen to me argue for a raise.
I bit my tongue and kept my head down, started putting in applications and floating my resume to people in my network.
I quickly interviewed for and yesterday got offered a job with a much larger (Fortune 500) company about an hour from my home. (I consider that a very short commute, but about twice as long as my current commute).
I will get a 20% raise from my current salary, benefits (health, dental, vision, 401k) and after my first 3 months, a performance review with the opportunity for another bump in pay.
Today, I gave my boss my 2 weeks notice. He did not seem surprised. He asked me what he could do to keep me. I explained the paragraph above (I'm getting a 20% raise and benefits with great growth potential at a large company, my commute is much longer)
I had the same conversation with my CEO.
They asked me if I would listen to a counter-offer and I told them I would listen to anything they had to say.
My question to the money board:
With the information above, would you ever accept a counter? I don't imagine they can put together something competitive, but now it has me thinking.
It would take an offer in the 75k-80k range for me to accept. I don't think they will offer that.
Even if they did and I accepted, am I permanently marked as not "loyal"? I feel like they'd be looking for the first opportunity to replace me with a cheaper option.
If I wasn't worth this amount when I asked for it back in 2017, why am I suddenly worth it when someone else is willing to pay me that? I just had a terrible performance-review, why keep such a bad employee?
TLDR:
Last year I got a 25% raise. This month, my boss gave me a shitty performance review. I got an offer for a 20% raise (and benefits which I don't have now) from a large company. I put in my resignation. Now they want to counter-offer. Should I accept their offer, even if it is better, or have I permanently placed a bulls eye on my back at this company?
____
Update
They provided me their counteroffer today.
It was about 7% higher than what the F500 is offering in salary, still no benefits.
I explained that at that number, I would have to decline.
My boss became very emotional/upset asking what it would take to keep me.
I explained it wasn't about money but about growth opportunity and feeling like I didn't want to work in a place where I had to put in my resignation to advance. I can't understand why I wasn't this valuable before, but now that I'm leaving, I am.
He explained the company didn't make any money and he just couldn't give me anything else at that time. This is still the case and he'd be taking out a "loan" in the form of more money from our CEO/Owner.
He begged me for a counter to his counter, I explained I really didn't want to give one because I don't think there was anything realistic.
He eventually pulled "80k and 5% equity" out of me.
Now he's scheming for a way to make that work or something competitive, offering to pay my salary out of his if the company can't afford it and guaranteeing me a percentage of sales from our new product launch... I don't think he could get the board to ever agree to these things, I don't know why he's suggesting them.
This whole process is now very uncomfortable for me.
___
Update-
I did apologize for not considering his counter more carefully and for pulling a number out of my butt.
I told him that I talked with my family and S/O and had made the decision to go with the F500.
He did not seem upset and I think I was successful in making this an amicable split. I should be able to remain friends and have a good reference from this guy moving forward.
I announced it to the small team here at the office and told them it wasn't an easy decision and how much I enjoyed working with everyone.
I will tell my off-shore team on Monday.
Unfortunately, the drama isn't yet over.
I'm going for a second round interview with a company 10 minutes from my house offering generous benefits and 85-100k in salary.
If I land that by some miracle, I'll be having a very awkward conversation with my very new boss at the F500...
This month, I was scheduled for a very small raise (5%). My boss absolutely blindsides me, tells me he thinks my performance is lacking, I'm not giving 110% and that "on some days I think you only work an hour a day".
I'm pretty friendly with this boss and was very surprised by this PR. It came out of no where and he had never mentioned poor performance at any point prior to this. I think it had to do with no-one was getting a raise and if he told me my performance was good, he'd have to listen to me argue for a raise.
I bit my tongue and kept my head down, started putting in applications and floating my resume to people in my network.
I quickly interviewed for and yesterday got offered a job with a much larger (Fortune 500) company about an hour from my home. (I consider that a very short commute, but about twice as long as my current commute).
I will get a 20% raise from my current salary, benefits (health, dental, vision, 401k) and after my first 3 months, a performance review with the opportunity for another bump in pay.
Today, I gave my boss my 2 weeks notice. He did not seem surprised. He asked me what he could do to keep me. I explained the paragraph above (I'm getting a 20% raise and benefits with great growth potential at a large company, my commute is much longer)
I had the same conversation with my CEO.
They asked me if I would listen to a counter-offer and I told them I would listen to anything they had to say.
My question to the money board:
With the information above, would you ever accept a counter? I don't imagine they can put together something competitive, but now it has me thinking.
It would take an offer in the 75k-80k range for me to accept. I don't think they will offer that.
Even if they did and I accepted, am I permanently marked as not "loyal"? I feel like they'd be looking for the first opportunity to replace me with a cheaper option.
If I wasn't worth this amount when I asked for it back in 2017, why am I suddenly worth it when someone else is willing to pay me that? I just had a terrible performance-review, why keep such a bad employee?
TLDR:
Last year I got a 25% raise. This month, my boss gave me a shitty performance review. I got an offer for a 20% raise (and benefits which I don't have now) from a large company. I put in my resignation. Now they want to counter-offer. Should I accept their offer, even if it is better, or have I permanently placed a bulls eye on my back at this company?
____
Update
They provided me their counteroffer today.
It was about 7% higher than what the F500 is offering in salary, still no benefits.
I explained that at that number, I would have to decline.
My boss became very emotional/upset asking what it would take to keep me.
I explained it wasn't about money but about growth opportunity and feeling like I didn't want to work in a place where I had to put in my resignation to advance. I can't understand why I wasn't this valuable before, but now that I'm leaving, I am.
He explained the company didn't make any money and he just couldn't give me anything else at that time. This is still the case and he'd be taking out a "loan" in the form of more money from our CEO/Owner.
He begged me for a counter to his counter, I explained I really didn't want to give one because I don't think there was anything realistic.
He eventually pulled "80k and 5% equity" out of me.
Now he's scheming for a way to make that work or something competitive, offering to pay my salary out of his if the company can't afford it and guaranteeing me a percentage of sales from our new product launch... I don't think he could get the board to ever agree to these things, I don't know why he's suggesting them.
This whole process is now very uncomfortable for me.
___
Update-
I did apologize for not considering his counter more carefully and for pulling a number out of my butt.
I told him that I talked with my family and S/O and had made the decision to go with the F500.
He did not seem upset and I think I was successful in making this an amicable split. I should be able to remain friends and have a good reference from this guy moving forward.
I announced it to the small team here at the office and told them it wasn't an easy decision and how much I enjoyed working with everyone.
I will tell my off-shore team on Monday.
Unfortunately, the drama isn't yet over.
I'm going for a second round interview with a company 10 minutes from my house offering generous benefits and 85-100k in salary.
If I land that by some miracle, I'll be having a very awkward conversation with my very new boss at the F500...
This post was edited on 2/2/18 at 1:55 pm
Posted on 1/31/18 at 1:48 pm to Wind
I would personally take the new job.
Posted on 1/31/18 at 1:51 pm to Wind
There are very few situations where someone should accept a counter offer. As in, almost never.
Posted on 1/31/18 at 1:52 pm to Wind
Just for starters-
1. Don't underestimate the shittiness of an hour commute each way. Maybe move closer...?
2. I don't think I'd hang around a place that I thought was playing games like that. Tell me how terrible I am, and then freak out because I want to leave...if they're willing to do that kind of stuff, hear the offer, but I'd probably just jump now.
I've accepted two, and regretted both
1. Don't underestimate the shittiness of an hour commute each way. Maybe move closer...?
2. I don't think I'd hang around a place that I thought was playing games like that. Tell me how terrible I am, and then freak out because I want to leave...if they're willing to do that kind of stuff, hear the offer, but I'd probably just jump now.
quote:
There are very few situations where someone should accept a counter offer. As in, almost never
I've accepted two, and regretted both
This post was edited on 1/31/18 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 1/31/18 at 1:54 pm to AUjim
quote:
2. I don't think I'd hang around a place that I thought was playing games like that. Tell me how terrible I am, and then freak out because I want to leave...if they're willing to do that kind of stuff, hear the offer, but I'd probably just jump now.
This basically sums up my feelings and the reason I can't imagine accepting a counter.
But if they come back with a larger salary and a small amount of equity? I think I'm day-dreaming and even then I'd have to think about it.
The fact that I'd have to think about accepting more money to stay is probably answer enough.
Posted on 1/31/18 at 2:00 pm to Wind
Fixing the hour commute would be higher on my agenda than worrying about a counter.
F500 benefits alone likely have a $10-15K cash value.
F500 benefits alone likely have a $10-15K cash value.
Posted on 1/31/18 at 2:06 pm to lynxcat
quote:
Fixing the hour commute would be higher on my agenda than worrying about a counter.
I already commute a half hour.
From my driveway to their parking lot is about 50 minutes.
It's a straight shot north on the interstate the whole way. I'm putting my 2014 F150 on cruise control and listening to the radio / podcast.
I know I'll learn to hate it, but at the moment, it doesn't seem intimidating to me.
quote:
F500 benefits alone likely have a $10-15K cash value.
They aren't quite *that* valuable.
On the open market, health benefits would cost me about $450 a month. I will pay about $150 out of pocket for benefits at this company. The $300 savings each month comes out to about $3600 in savings per year.
Edit:
I didn't consider the 401k matching. It could be much more lucrative...
This post was edited on 1/31/18 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 1/31/18 at 2:13 pm to Wind
quote:
They aren't quite *that* valuable.
On the open market, health benefits would cost me about $450 a month. I will pay about $150 out of pocket for benefits at this company. The $300 savings each month comes out to about $3600 in savings per year.
401k match could be a huge financial benefit as well.
I'd take a job that has me making nearly 50% more than I did 7 months ago and includes all the fringe benefits and growth opportunities in a second, assuming similar work that I am already enjoying.
Posted on 1/31/18 at 2:21 pm to Wind
Do you have a formal offer letter yet?
Personally, i wouldn't have the conversation until everything was in hand, including the background check - just in case there's some identity theft related credit issue or something weird.
To answer the OP, I'd leave. I'd also ask why they'd consider countering for someone who only works an hour a day.
Personally, i wouldn't have the conversation until everything was in hand, including the background check - just in case there's some identity theft related credit issue or something weird.
To answer the OP, I'd leave. I'd also ask why they'd consider countering for someone who only works an hour a day.
Posted on 1/31/18 at 2:27 pm to lynxcat
quote:this. And coupled with the recent conversation you had with them, it's time to move on.
There are very few situations where someone should accept a counter offer. As in, almost never.
Posted on 1/31/18 at 2:31 pm to LSUfan20005
I have a signed agreement.
No concerns about a background check or my credit. I do have a drug screen but not concerned about that either. Took an at home test off Amazon last night and pissed clean.
The conversation was already had this morning. Just waiting to hear their counter now. They didn't even ask to see my offer letter.
The one hour thing pissed me off so bad. I'm trying to avoid bringing up anything negative and just act professional. But I had the exact same thought. Why keep such a bad employee, much less a counter to his resignation?
No concerns about a background check or my credit. I do have a drug screen but not concerned about that either. Took an at home test off Amazon last night and pissed clean.
The conversation was already had this morning. Just waiting to hear their counter now. They didn't even ask to see my offer letter.
The one hour thing pissed me off so bad. I'm trying to avoid bringing up anything negative and just act professional. But I had the exact same thought. Why keep such a bad employee, much less a counter to his resignation?
Posted on 1/31/18 at 2:32 pm to Wind
I wouldn't stay somewhere that was trying to play games. If I'm not going to get a raise, fine. it's understandable considering the previous raise, but don't BS me out of it. Listening to their counter is just a way to split amicably, instead of saying frick you i'm out.
Posted on 1/31/18 at 2:34 pm to LSUfan20005
quote:
To answer the OP, I'd leave. I'd also ask why they'd consider countering for someone who only works an hour a day.
Logical question. The "loyalty" cases are less and less by both parties these days. A company is only as loyal to you as you affect the bottom line. There are situations (small business) that sometimes buck this trend, but they are outliers. No one should ever fault you for moving on professionally. Make it amicable and split on good terms.
Posted on 1/31/18 at 2:34 pm to Wind
Would you ever trust them to do what's right by you without you having to get an offer somewhere else to force their hand?
Posted on 1/31/18 at 3:13 pm to Wind
Thank them and remove your rearview mirror
Posted on 1/31/18 at 3:13 pm to Wind
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/31/18 at 3:15 pm
Posted on 1/31/18 at 3:21 pm to Wind
Obviously, I think there is a number for you to stay but that number should be much higher than the other offer. I don't know what that number is, but I'm sure you do. If they offered you 100k to stay, would you change your mind?
I definitely wouldn't trust your current employer but I feel like if you are willing to drive an hour, another opportunity could come up. It sounds like you found this job pretty quick.
Do you work more than one hour per day? TD doesn't count as working.
I definitely wouldn't trust your current employer but I feel like if you are willing to drive an hour, another opportunity could come up. It sounds like you found this job pretty quick.
Do you work more than one hour per day? TD doesn't count as working.
Posted on 1/31/18 at 3:27 pm to Wind
I wouldn't accept a counter offer because I'd constantly feel like they're trying to replace me even if they didn't act like it.
Posted on 1/31/18 at 3:28 pm to Wind
i bet the counter just pisses you off again.
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