re: Life as a Lawyer Advice Needed

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Is your daughter a finder, minder, or grinder?

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this is obviously probably industry specific, but i find that very few women are finders. the most successful ones are minders from what i've seen. lots of them become moms and go the grinder route but part time these days. however, i mainly deal with male dominated industries (although I assume most probably still are). i don't think being a woman is inherently limiting, but the real world implications of having a family certainly are unfortunately. being a lawyer can be very consuming of your time.

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But you would agree that the barrier to female entry into the marketplace is lower than it was 20 years ago, right?

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I have been in practice about 15 or so years but I don't think there is a barrier per se. It's really just some industries are not as conducive to having a family. For instance, in a small to mid sized firm (very common in southern states), a lawyer who takes 6mos maternity leave is pretty financially harmful to the business. I think that could be on the mind of the people doing the hiring at those firms. Smart ones will recognize the benefit of a talented young woman in the firm, but not all lawyers are business savvy

Another aspect is the client development. In my industry, we do lots of golf tournaments and hunting trips. There are usually some women, and they aren't excluded, but not as many are interested in these kinds of activities. If you raise smart, confident daughters, they can absolutely make it. I think it's just a harder road unfortunately. And yes i think this changes more and more (e.g., this type of client development is getting somewhat less common)

Just a fun little update post to spark some discussion. Here's an example of what a first year is making in LA (while billing 2k hours):

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I've been practicing for a year - this is my first job out of school in deep south Louisiana. I split my time about 40/40/20 between insurance defense, general business and municipal litigation, and estate planning areas. I'm expected to make 2000 billable hours/year (right now, my average billing is about 160-170 hours/month). CLE expenses are always entirely reimbursed. Health insurance is mid-tier. Currently, my salary sits at $65,000/year. Bonus seems to be about $7,000/year.

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frick, that. I'd rather go dig some ditches

LSU if she wants to stay in-state, anywhere else if not. Could make an argument for Tulane if she wants to be in Nola because Tulane gives some good connections there. However, LSU runs the state outside of Nola as far as connections go.

If she wants to go out of state, go to the best one she can get into for reasonable money. Big market cities/firms are going to want to hire from T14 schools so she wants to shoot for those. Although, those big firms burn people out quick. Unless she’s an outlier, the standard biglaw experience is make a ton of money for 3-5 to pay off all your loans, buy a house, save some $$, and then bounce for a better quality of life job. Biglaw is notoriously unfulfilling for most.

LSU Law just posted its employment survey for the Class of 2023. 100 reported working for a law firm. Of 80 that reported salary information, average was $103,000. High was $215,000. Again, these are first year lawyers.

LINK

Those things are always full of lies. Also, using average instead of median is done on purpose.

I graduated in 2008 so I know what kind of frickery LSU Law engages in to pretend these numbers are legit. There was not a worse time to graduate and they posted similar laughable employment rates when a lot of grads were lucky to get land man jobs.

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Here's an example of what a first year is making in LA (while billing 2k hours):

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That is unusually low pay for an associate at a LA firm. Most small to mid size firms in a decent sized city are going to bottom out at about 80k. Bigger firms closer to 100k bottom. Not sure where this person lives, but sounds like he needs to move.

I didn't read this entire thread but I tell anyone who asks me about law school what I've learned in my experience.

1. Even though it's still a law degree, there are two major different paths you can take. (1) Top school, larger city, "Biglaw" or (2) working as a solo/partnering with one friend and working in a smaller to midsize town. (3) a third option can also be a small boutique/specialized firm. You need to decide what lifestyle you are aiming for as the school and skills you need can be very different.

2. I chose route two but I knew where I wanted to work going in. It was a grind for a decade. I don't advise many people take that route unless you have family/dad already running an office you can hang a shingle at to learn. If you can make it, the reward can be great but even now, I'm not sure if it was financially the right move when considering how long I spent to get her. I saw A LOT of lawyers graduate, work a year or two and then change careers. If you are going this route, the school you choose almost makes no difference. I know several night school/unaccredited law school grads making half a mil or more a year.

Succeeding as a solo/small town lawyer is often more about business than law. You have to be good at running an office. Some people are great lawyers but terrible businessmen. A great businessmen that's just an average lawyer will often do better. It took me a long time to grasp that concept.

All that said, I honestly go back and forth of whether or not it's worth it. From a strictly financial standpoint, it would be hard for me to recommend law unless you are talking top school and big city.

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Practicing what kind of law?

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these are almost certainly personal injury lawyers. and yes it is frustrating

She can take the first year at LSU for free then transfer to one of the other schools.