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Is Everything "In A Bubble" Right Now?

Posted on 9/19/17 at 6:56 pm
Posted by rocket31
Member since Jan 2008
41819 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 6:56 pm
student loan bubble
real estate bubble
stock market bubble
auto loan bubble
bitcoin bubble
tech startup bubble
usd bubble

not sure where to go from here
Posted by LSURep864
Moscow, Idaho
Member since Nov 2007
10910 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 7:16 pm to
Everything but Bitcoin. Bitcoin will rise as the dollar continues its impending fall. It's the red pill.
Posted by rocket31
Member since Jan 2008
41819 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 7:26 pm to
i have more than id ever want to admit on here in bitcoin, so i hope so bro
Posted by Mr.Perfect
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2013
17438 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 8:36 pm to
So risky. You got a bigger set than me man
Posted by KillTheGophers
Member since Jan 2016
6218 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:23 pm to
Real estate prices are plummeting in my neck of the woods.

Posted by LSUcam7
FL
Member since Sep 2016
7906 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:27 pm to
quote:

Everything but Bitcoin


Initially upvoted. Then realized you were being serious.
Posted by ItNeverRains
37069
Member since Oct 2007
25472 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 6:22 am to
I've got a one time 10k investment in bitcoin. I'm up 20k. If I lose 10k initial investment know what happens to me in the long run? Nothing substantial long term. It's fun. Go into it knowing the risk and realizing if it dissolves to shite it will be ok but if it does anything what lots of people say it may do holy shite what a fun way to make a chunk of change
This post was edited on 9/20/17 at 6:24 am
Posted by Fat Bastard
coach, investor, gambler
Member since Mar 2009
72707 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 8:28 am to
quote:

Real estate prices are plummeting in my neck of the woods.





do you flip? if not and you bought for CF it doesn't matter what prices are doing.
Posted by Teddy Ruxpin
Member since Oct 2006
39584 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 8:32 am to
quote:


Is Everything "In A Bubble" Right Now?


Term is probably overused. We're on the long end of a bull run. The only thing you can really say is that each month that passes, is one month closer to the end. An end no one can really predict on the nose.

Bubble should probably be used in catastrophic circumstances, not regular pullbacks after bull runs.
Posted by Upperdecker
St. George, LA
Member since Nov 2014
30584 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 9:46 am to
I don't agree that all have a bubble, and the type of bubble is important. The college student loan bubble is based on societal values. Societal values will change over time, but it's not gonna burst in a day. While a true stock market bubble could burst in a day. And tech startups aren't a bubble IMO, there are tons that fail and you'll never hear about them, you just hear about the ones that don't fail
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422603 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:36 am to
"big finance" constantly shifts money around and creates these bubbles

after the RE crash in 2008, for example, they flooded the oil futures market with speculation, which inflated the shite out of those prices

the student loan bubble isn't as much big finance as stupid governmental policy, although usually the 2 combined are what create these major bubbles

the crazy part is how the bubbles recycle. we've had tech bubbles before the current one that we're in and even RE is trending back to bubble territory only a decade after the worst economic crisis since the great depression
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422603 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:41 am to
quote:

Societal values will change over time, but it's not gonna burst in a day. While a true stock market bubble could burst in a day.

yeah the student loan issue is a crisis created by bad government policy. it doesn't have the same immediate deflationary concerns (aka, the "pop") that a true bubble has. this is b/c it's not an area where money has flooded by private investment to create artificial inflation to pump and dump. also the value of the product is much more intangible than tactile property (a house, car, gold, cryptos, whatever). there is no secondary market for a college degree to be sold, and universities aren't going to slash tuitions by 50% in a year. it's just it's own crisis

quote:

And tech startups aren't a bubble IMO, there are tons that fail and you'll never hear about them, you just hear about the ones that don't fail

i think the big boys are a huge bubble and are creating bubbles within bubbles with their over-valued acquisitions

companies have to create profits at some point, and pumping all revenue into expansions to pump up stock prices is, by definition, creating a bubble. most tech companies are doing this with their primary stock and then creating insane inflation within smaller companies that they then acquire (aka, the big boys got pumped and dumped). it's just insane now
Posted by Triple Bogey
19th Green
Member since May 2017
5986 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 12:03 pm to
Everybody keeps trying to place the next bet, just like 'The Big Short'. Nobody knows jack shite about when the next bubble will burst or even what it is going to be. And people are missing out on this bull market while waiting for the big dip that may or may not come. If I had to guess, it would be to short the automakers. Car prices, especially truck prices, have become ridiculous and I have a strange feeling that they will have a lot of leftover new inventory in the next few years that they will have to try and get rid of. Just a shot in the dark though, maybe not.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422603 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 12:15 pm to
quote:

Nobody knows jack shite about when the next bubble will burst or even what it is going to be. And people are missing out on this bull market while waiting for the big dip that may or may not come.

the dip has to come

people are terrible at predicting winners in markets, long term. people are just riding the positive side of variance right now, leveraged too far. when the bottom drops (and it has to at some point), they're going to be in 2008 positions all over again

quote:

Car prices, especially truck prices, have become ridiculous and I have a strange feeling that they will have a lot of leftover new inventory in the next few years that they will have to try and get rid of.

the market is still feeling the effects of Clash for Clunkers, one of the worst domestic policy ideas the past 30 years
Posted by 3en
Member since May 2015
507 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 11:00 pm to
quote:

when the bottom drops (and it has to at some point)
We're about 5 months out from this being the longest "economic expansion" in the history of the United States, its coming.
quote:

they're going to be in 2008 positions all over again
Worse. Remember "too big to fail"? Consolidation didn't help things long term.


I don't like to think of myself as a doom and gloomer but Jim Rogers, Peter Schiff, and James Rickards make some good points.

quote:

Is Everything "In A Bubble" Right Now?
Yes
Posted by baobabtiger
Member since May 2009
4724 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:02 am to
quote:

We're about 5 months out from this being the longest "economic expansion" in the history of the United States, its coming.


I tend to agree however the recession of 2008-2012 (ish) was one of the longer on record. That's the only reason I think it lasts a little longer.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422603 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:05 am to
what frightens me is the more i learn about how financial/investment guys aren't really actually that great at picking winning investments, along with all of the bubbles, it really does seem like Wall Street and the Silicon Valley IB/seeding do nothing more than pump and dump. they flood money into sectors, create inflation, and then cut ties when the normies or investment outfits in smaller markets catch on.

that is ultimately terrifying to me
Posted by kfaulk03
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2007
1480 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 4:08 pm to
Long beer
Posted by tigeraddict
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
11812 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 4:20 pm to
you forgot to add government Pension liabilities in major cities and at some state levels.



Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 9/21/17 at 8:34 pm to
quote:

they flood money into sectors, create inflation, and then cut ties


I think you've been buying too much into populist storytellers like Michael Lewis, and getting the causation completely wrong here.

There's little doubt in my mind that most asset prices are wildly overvalued at the moment (just read by Hussman-related posts on here), but it has absolutely nothing to do with the i-bankers and PE/VC crowd inflating prices or pumping and dumping. They're just doing their job as salesmen, and the real driver of inflation is near-ZIRP. The PE/VC firms thus gets tons of money raised easily, but then can't find enough deal flow to sustain their enterprise and justify them holding all that investor cash--so they bid up multiples. But they're just playing the central bankers' game of musical chairs--they dance or they have to quit and find employment in another type of career.

It's the classic financial advisors who are selling people on bullshite (i.e., that stocks are currently a good investment because of their dividend yield relative to bond yields) once again. You can hardly blame them either though. They're just doing their jobs.

Calling this an "everything bubble" is a pretty decent way to think about things, but technically (as Shiller himself points out), we're not really experiencing bubble-type phenomena, ICOs excepted. Rather, we're just experiencing overinflated asset prices everywhere because nobody knows what else is better to do, even though a whole lot of people are still worried.

Also, I've been a sharp critic of near-ZIRP since about 2011 (although I also supported it from about 2008-2010 as being temporarily necessary), but not all of this can be laid at the feet of the Fed either. Firstly, because the Fed isn't the root cause of America's macroeconomic stagnation since the mid-1960s (and more sharply since 2000). Secondly, because a lot of the asset inflation is coming from overseas. There are people out there who make a pretty good case that recent U.S. stock market appreciation is correlated to the combined asset balances of the FRB, ECB, BOJ, & PBOC (plus the BOE, SNB, etc.). So even as the Fed begins to wind down, that doesn't mean that other major central banks won't keep propping things up. The Swiss National Bank alone has about $80 billion invested in the U.S. stock market, or about $10,000 for every man, woman, and child in Switzerland. Crazy times.
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