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CPI comes in hotter than expected, S&P 500 down 1%

Posted on 2/13/24 at 7:55 am
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
84758 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 7:55 am
LINK

quote:

The consumer price index, a broad-based measure of the prices shoppers face for goods and services across the economy, increased 0.3% for the month, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported. On a 12-month basis, that came out to 3.1%.

Economists surveyed by Dow Jones had been looking for a monthly increase of 0.2% and an annual gain of 2.9%.

Excluding volatile food and energy prices, so-called core CPI accelerated 0.4% in January and was up 3.9% from a year ago. The forecast had been for 0.3% and 3.7% respectively.


10y treasury up to 4.27%, 2y up to 4.6%. Stocks down approximately 1%.

The 5+ rate cuts narrative from the fall has basically lost all of its momentum.
Posted by FLObserver
Jacksonville
Member since Nov 2005
14445 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 7:59 am to
Food ,paying for power, rent keep going up. Shocker!! Biden can keep saying the employment numbers are still great but until paying for electricity, rent and food start going down this will continue to be a big problem.
This post was edited on 2/13/24 at 8:04 am
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
84758 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 8:04 am to
Food and energy are the least of his problems with respect to current inflation rates.
Posted by KWL85
Member since Mar 2023
1135 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 8:07 am to
The 5+ rate cuts narrative from the fall has basically lost all of its momentum
____________________________

Agree.

2 or 3 .25 cuts feels likely.
Posted by Im4datigers
Northern Virginia
Member since Oct 2003
4463 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 8:13 am to
5 rate cuts are def still on the table - you forget it’s an election year grasshopper, and Biden has nothing of substance to run on.

And yes, I do know he doesn’t control rates, but unfortunately the Fed has become way to politicized just like everything else.
This post was edited on 2/13/24 at 8:26 am
Posted by SloaneRanger
Upper Hurstville
Member since Jan 2014
7673 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 8:13 am to
quote:

Biden can keep saying the employment numbers are still great


Mostly illegals, part time jobs and multiple job holders.
Posted by JohnnyKilroy
Cajun Navy Vice Admiral
Member since Oct 2012
35289 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 8:31 am to
quote:

The 5+ rate cuts narrative from the fall has basically lost all of its momentum.


Good
Posted by Gabapentin
Member since Mar 2022
327 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 8:34 am to
go look at China's market right now and you'll understand.
Posted by KWL85
Member since Mar 2023
1135 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 8:48 am to
So far, the call for 5 or 6 cuts has been more wishful thinking. The remaining gap to get where they want it will come slower than the optimists want.

Your election year comment is valid. But Biden will use the old "it's the economy stupid" politics. Even though many are struggling with high prices, the national numbers will provide talking points.

I am not trying to make this thread political. Only responding to your point. He will have election year talking points without 5 cuts based on several key numbers. I don't think we see that many cuts even with the election year politics.
Posted by fallguy_1978
Best States #50
Member since Feb 2018
48463 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 8:53 am to
I don't see any reason to cut rates at this point. It's not like we are at some extreme level or anything.
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
84758 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 8:54 am to
quote:

but unfortunately the Fed has become way to politicized just like everything else.


There is basically no proof that the FOMC is politicized.
Posted by Civildawg
Member since May 2012
8557 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 9:29 am to
I mean trump basically bullied Powell to cut rates did he not?
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
84758 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 9:36 am to
quote:

mean trump basically bullied Powell to cut rates did he not?


He tried for a long time but the Fed came to that conclusion on their own after the “global slowdown” near the end of 2018.
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
51523 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 10:01 am to
quote:

5 rate cuts are def still on the table


Not without a severe drop in the economy. JPow has been consistent thus far with keeping the Fed on track, despite what the market wants, so there's no reason to believe he will change directions now.

And let's be clear on this, what we're seeing is the impact of this:


***NOTE: the spike from April to May 2020 is from the Fed announcing changes to Regulation D, not COVID money***

If you accept that inflation is too much money chasing too few goods, then you can take from M1 that inflation isn't going to go down easily until we get the money supply back down (~50% of the COVID excess has come out since the April 2022 high) to somewhere around May 2020's number.

What we saw after May 2020 was a frickton of liquidity injected into the market in a ridiculously short time period and that's going to take time to excise out. That still-resident excess is what's fueling latent demand and that latent demand is expressing itself through inflation stickiness even though rates have continued to remain high.

If the economy continues to track the way it has over the last 6 months, I wouldn't expect anything more than two cuts this year with neither coming before we get into at least Q3 (likely Q4, but it's too far out to do more than flip a coin on that).

We likely needed another small hike last year, but we seem to be walking a fine line between fighting inflation and keeping more banks from going under.
This post was edited on 2/13/24 at 10:04 am
Posted by Motownsix
Boise
Member since Oct 2022
1982 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 10:33 am to
I don’t get how the public is so deeply divided over economic news post Covid. The sky screamers seem to be doing so simply to creative a political narrative. When asked most admit they are doing quite well but just happen to lucky or super smart. The business survey reports I see in the markets I live have been great and all the earnings report I read indicates the average consumer is confident and spending money.
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11084 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 10:35 am to
quote:

I mean trump basically bullied Powell to cut rates did he not?



No, the high yield bond market did that.
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11084 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 10:38 am to
quote:

And let's be clear on this, what we're seeing is the impact of this:




Reserves don't matter
Posted by CalTiger53
California
Member since Oct 2011
9036 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 11:31 am to
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/13/24 at 12:07 pm
Posted by TigerFanatic99
South Bend, Indiana
Member since Jan 2007
27517 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 11:45 am to
quote:

Inflation is the result of woke policies and won't go away without stopping those policies.


Can you give an example or two of, specifically, wokeness being the driving factor for inflation?
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
33403 posts
Posted on 2/13/24 at 1:09 pm to
quote:

The 5+ rate cuts narrative from the fall has basically lost all of its momentum.
I've amazed at how tethered people have been to this wishcasting for years now. On the way up, they would act us if there was some big mystery to unravel, when, in fact, Powell was just straight up saying every time exactly what he was going to do!
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