- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Why is Kelly so obsessed with shotgun formation, inside zone runs?
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:12 am
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:12 am
I imagine at least 50% and probably closer to 65% of our runs are pure, simple, vanilla inside zone runs with very basic zone blocking.
Basically this:
The vast majority of the remainder of the run scheme is outside zone runs with basic, vanilla zone blocking.
The problem with this, other than the simplistic nature of the scheme (which makes it easy to scheme around), is we key exactly where we are going to run. Even if you switch from inside to outside, the gaps are still on the same side of the center. If you have no zone-option threat, then the DE on the weakside can always crash (this was a major issue against USCw late that I brought up constantly).
People on here criticize Nuss for not keeping it, but he doesn't have the option to do it. We're not running zone reads like we did with JD.
In 2022 I was highly critical of BK/Denbrock for constantly relying on this basic, vanilla bullshite run scheme. JD made it work b/c he was historically good, but it was clearly limited.
In 2023, JD became one of the best QBs in CFB history and he really made it work, BUT we also incorporated a lot of pistol looks to open things up. The non-QB rushing was still mostly based around Jayden magic, but we had a few wrinkles.
From the pistol, you can run like a traditional run scheme and not tip your running side, where you can incorporate man blocking, different types of zone blocking, counters, pulls, etc. Just an overall more complex and efficient running game.
Why is Kelly so stubborn about this "inside zone or death" running philosophy? This is clearly not a Denbrock or Sloan issue exclusively, as we are running BK's offense.
Also, it's clear Brad Davis has issues coaching this zone blocking scheme. Great recruiter but his coaching is kind of being exposed. This is 3 years in row of weak zone blocking by our OL. It was just hidden somewhat for 2 because of how amazing Jayden is. You put in a less efficient/skilled QB and it crumbles entirely (and that's not fully on Nuss).
Basically this:
The vast majority of the remainder of the run scheme is outside zone runs with basic, vanilla zone blocking.
The problem with this, other than the simplistic nature of the scheme (which makes it easy to scheme around), is we key exactly where we are going to run. Even if you switch from inside to outside, the gaps are still on the same side of the center. If you have no zone-option threat, then the DE on the weakside can always crash (this was a major issue against USCw late that I brought up constantly).
People on here criticize Nuss for not keeping it, but he doesn't have the option to do it. We're not running zone reads like we did with JD.
In 2022 I was highly critical of BK/Denbrock for constantly relying on this basic, vanilla bullshite run scheme. JD made it work b/c he was historically good, but it was clearly limited.
In 2023, JD became one of the best QBs in CFB history and he really made it work, BUT we also incorporated a lot of pistol looks to open things up. The non-QB rushing was still mostly based around Jayden magic, but we had a few wrinkles.
From the pistol, you can run like a traditional run scheme and not tip your running side, where you can incorporate man blocking, different types of zone blocking, counters, pulls, etc. Just an overall more complex and efficient running game.
Why is Kelly so stubborn about this "inside zone or death" running philosophy? This is clearly not a Denbrock or Sloan issue exclusively, as we are running BK's offense.
Also, it's clear Brad Davis has issues coaching this zone blocking scheme. Great recruiter but his coaching is kind of being exposed. This is 3 years in row of weak zone blocking by our OL. It was just hidden somewhat for 2 because of how amazing Jayden is. You put in a less efficient/skilled QB and it crumbles entirely (and that's not fully on Nuss).
9
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:19 am to SlowFlowPro
Nuss should take more hikes under the center. It gives the RBs a running start and you can run play action. Nuss in the shotgun all the time doesn't work because Nuss can't run so the defensive team will Never go for the fake
in shotgun.
in shotgun.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:21 am to SlowFlowPro
I’d kill for some Les Miles Toss Dives for 5 yards.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:23 am to The Eric
The run option is stupid right now
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:23 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Nuss for not keeping it, but he doesn't have the option to do it.
I disagree. There are plenty of these where he rides the mesh point, so if all hell comes crashing down then he has the option to tuck and hit the edge. His simply chooses not to which makes us very predictable and our RBs get blown up in the teeth of the D.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:24 am to SlowFlowPro
1) we run more than just IZ.
2) we seemed to be effective with it in 2019. It’s not a play call issue, it’s a we get no push and don’t get to the 2nd level issue.
2) we seemed to be effective with it in 2019. It’s not a play call issue, it’s a we get no push and don’t get to the 2nd level issue.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:25 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Also, it's clear Brad Davis has issues coaching this zone blocking scheme. Great recruiter but his coaching is kind of being exposed. This is 3 years in row of weak zone blocking by our OL. It was just hidden somewhat for 2 because of how amazing Jayden is. You put in a less efficient/skilled QB and it crumbles entirely (and that's not fully on Nuss).
Serious questions need to be asked of him. Like you said beside Jayden being one of the best running QBs in SEC history we haven’t been able to establish any type of run with a RB for 3 seasons now
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:25 am to JiminyCricket
In 2019 we had a qb who wasn’t afraid to keep it and run. We also had 3 all world receivers and a running back that has 2 Super Bowl rings.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:27 am to SlowFlowPro
You have dual OC's, one is a QB coach, the other is a WR coach. No input from OL coach to the offensive scheme.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:27 am to The Eric
Still doesn’t address the problem our run game has now. It’s not a play call issue. Its a we get no push issue.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:28 am to alschroed
quote:
Nuss should take more hikes under the center. It gives the RBs a running start and you can run play action. Nuss in the shotgun all the time doesn't work because Nuss can't run so the defensive team will Never go for the fake
Yeah we should incorporate more formations under center.
Not I-form or anything (we don't need to go back to the Miles era), but 11 or 12 personnel.
Even if they refuse to go under center, like my OP says, we can use the pistol.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:28 am to JiminyCricket
It makes a huge difference when a QB is willing to keep the ball every so often.
Also we don’t run RPO.
I can’t recall a single time Nuss has pulled the ball for a quick pass.
Also we don’t run RPO.
I can’t recall a single time Nuss has pulled the ball for a quick pass.
This post was edited on 10/27/24 at 8:50 am
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:28 am to SlowFlowPro
You have dual OC's, one is a QB coach, the other is a WR coach. No input from OL coach to the offensive scheme.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:28 am to SlowFlowPro
Thanks for the diagrams and thorough explanation.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:29 am to JiminyCricket
quote:
we seemed to be effective with it in 2019.
Well we had Chase, Jets, Marshall, and Burrow
Also, our run game in 2019 wasn't that great.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:30 am to The Eric
We run a lot of RPO’s.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:31 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Also, our run game in 2019 wasn't that great.
Clyde ran for 1,400 yards in 19
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:34 am to JiminyCricket
quote:
Clyde ran for 1,400 yards in 19
We played a lot of games and he had 2 monster games.
Again, Chase, Jets, Marshall, and Burrow open up a lot of lanes.
When we started spamming the hurry up, CEH got a lot more efficient running the ball. His first 7 games, he only had 2, 100 yard games (and each occurred because of one long run).
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:35 am to The Eric
quote:
Also we don’t run RPO.
Exactly. A true RPO was Burrow eye's on safety looking at Jets running his choice slot route while meshing with Clyde. What LSU is doing this year is more of a RO without the P for 95% of those plays.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:36 am to FizzyPop
quote:
What LSU is doing this year is more of a RO without the P for 95% of those plays.
That's just a zone-read
Page 1 of 2
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News